00 s2k vs 04 cobra
 

Um well, its not much of a story, but I was taking a left and he was takin a right onto the same road. We both turned when the light turned green. We roll onto the 2 lane one way, we both rip it, from 1st-2nd shift i was at about his door, then once he shifted, holy crap, well we shut down at about top of 3rd. Ive never had as much enjoyment losing a race as I did this time. Damn I love cobras, if only I had more money. Talked to the guy, stock, but doesnt matter, he still handed my berlina ass to myself.:) Yellow Vert, sooo hotttt.

they dont cost that much more than a S2000, do they?

A lot of Cobras around lately.

Yeah, I got waxed by a cobra too. His was modded a bit and absolutely destroyed me. Kind of made me laugh.

cobra's are fu**ing fast.... but i bet the S would give it a good run in the canyons.

The new cobra is no more then a s2k new

Went to the track...there was a new Cobra holding me back around the turns...but on the straight....DAMN.
They are fast straight line performers....thats for sure.
Fern

5K more to be exact
30995 S2k from hardtopguy
35990 Cobra MSRP from dealer

Yeah...it was fast in a straight line, but once you two got onto a twisty road you would be way in front of him and he would be against a guardrail.

From what I read, cobra's (new ones) are pretty good handlers. Not s2000 good, but good. The straight line power more than makes up for the time loss on tight turns.

the only kind of roads an S2000 can keep up to even a pre-03 Cobra is one where no acceleration is required. This fantasy where an S2000 can out-drive a Cobra is just that, a fantasy. Keep fiddling, Nero.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by silvs2knvb

Two things about Cobras I don't like - yes they are rather popular and "it's a Mustang" which means there are lots of high school 'dady's girls' running around in lesser models. No thanks.

Also, the handling issue. Going fast in a straight line is fine, but I'm not driving for a pissing contest. I want to go out in the country where no one is around and drive like a fugging bat out of hell. When was the last time you saw a bat fly in a straight line?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by silvs2knvb

When was the last time I even saw a bat? I don't think I've seen one in person. ;) :LOL:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by no_really
the only kind of roads an S2000 can keep up to even a pre-03 Cobra is one where no acceleration is required.

Look...I'll always give a car credit where it deserves it. I give the Cobra credit for being powerful and fast in a straight line. Besides that, it doesn't have much going for it. Rustangs are generally known as pieces of crap, and I also think that's true.

cobras sure do have power. have you been inside one?? it is very cheap. :thumbdn:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Young_R
cobras sure do have power.

It is very hard to argue the car is a solid performer for the money. I mean, $36K for 390HP with 390Ft pounds of Torque? Decent suspension and Brakes to boot. Not a bad deal.

Yes, the interior is typical Ford styling but the car performs quite well in its segment. But what do you care about the interior? All you will ever see is it's tailights?

I had a modded one take me to school in a high speed drag race. Fast car..

KiD

Yeah, I'll see its tailights...hanging off in typical Ford fashion. For American car companies, it's all numbers. We have this much horsepower and this much torque. Wow. I give a lot more credit to the Japanese and German companies that can push out high amounts of horsepower and torque out of a smaller engine, and also make the car quick due to weight ratios and light weights. It's called engineering, not throwing the biggest engine you can make into a car.

Actually the new Cobras have very comfortable seats with alot of support and several power adjustments on the drivers seat. Other than that they are very bland interiors with alot of cheap plastic. But make no mistake, it's not trying to be anything other than what it is which is a straight line monster which is very capable handler. It is a much harder car to drive due to it's additional weight and MASSIVE power especially when modded. It will surprise alot of you on the track in the hands of a great driver who will be able to handle a car while constantly breaking the tires loose. I could easily smoke the tires in my 03 pulling onto the higway at 65-70 mph. I won most of my races before my tires even hooked completely and I wasn't racing slow cars. If they offer the new body Mustang with the current Cobra power plant I will buy a vert for my fun car and slap a KB blower on it. It will only come out on weekends or for the occassional 11 sec blast down the track.

A corvette engine probably weighs less than many of the engines your referring to and probably makes more power and torque than most of them as well. Give credit where credit is due there are different ways of tackling technology. When some guy pulls up next to u in his new C6 convertible and rips off an 11 sec pass as opposed to your 14 sec pass in an S2000 I'd like to see your technology argument rationalize that. 120 hp/ltr is fantastic and quite an accomplishment but certainly doesn't win races.

When I said American car companies, I should've excluded the Corvette, because I agree with you. Same typical problems with the interior and reliability, though.

that is a load of BS. The C5 has won JD Powers quality awards several times, while no Honda ever has, AFAIK.

And it seems to me, if Ford engineers and workers can build a production engine capable of putting out well over 400 RWHP (600-800 RWHP), reliably, with no modifications to the engine internals or heads, then quality is not one of their problems.

Actually, if you look up the reliability of most Fords, you'll find that quality is one of their problems.

You ought to stop repeating things you read on a Civic forums. You have made several comments on this thread alone that display ignorance and a strong anti-American prejudice. Your OPINIONS on Ford or Chevy quality are just your opinions, and they do not reflect reality, much as you think they do.

Actually, the only forum I go on is this one. The American cars my family has owned had bad reliability, and I read about cars a lot and that also means I read up on reliability ratings. Therefore, it isn't ignorance, it's knowledge.

Nero,

Yea, you seem pretty down on American cars. Living in the Arm Pit of the US, I find this rather surprising. Fords or Chevy's aren't my cup of tea either all though my wife drives an Eddie Bauer Expedition and it is one nice truck which I have had ZERO problems with. Not to mention the thing is deluxe for long trips.

Anyway, unless you can pull a Vette or a New Cobra in whatever you drive, I would chill out a little.

KiD

You're absolutely right. The fact that a Vette or Cobra can pull whatever I'm driving means that I should shut my mouth. I'm done with this thread.

What are you driving there Nero? Just curious.. Diablo, 996 Twin Turbo, or something Red with a dancing horse on the hood.. Please let us know.

KiD

[QUOTE]Originally posted by no_really
You ought to stop repeating things you read on a Civic forums.

The facts clearly do not support your claims. Ford makes the best selling car, truck, and SUV in the world. GM sells more cars and trucks than anyone else in the world. No Japanese maker comes close to the sales numbers and revenue of Ford and GM. They didn't get on top by making crappy cars and trucks, no matter what your opinion or the opinion of some magazine writer. Chrysler is not nearly as successful, but the K-car, while not being anyone's dream car, was at one time the best-selling car in America, and it puts the Civic to shame when it comes to power, interior room, and price. The minivan was made popular by Chrysler, and their version has long been considered the best. It has been copied by nearly every auto maker in the world. I doubt companies copied the design because it was so flawed.

Keep repeating the tired myths of American poor quality, based only on prejudice. While you're at it, tell people how much faster your car is than theirs, because you read it in a magazine. Sure, some people will believe you. But they are ignorant.

03 and above will rape a s2k...
supercharged from factory

[QUOTE]Originally posted by no_really
The facts clearly do not support your claims.

I own a couple American trucks (GMC 2500 and a Tahoe). I also own a S. I think my wifes Tahoe will be cheaper in the long run. American auto makers make great BIG cars. Asian auto makers make great cars for 50,000 miles. Then the mechanics start to fall apart, or at least rattle.

Hope it doesn't happen with my s! (Although after 3 years still under 10k!) Wanna buy it?!

u gotta be kidding me....

I don't know what kinda "Asian" cars you've owned, so maybe they were Huyndai and the likes. My family and I have owned countless of Hondas and Toyotas and they were faultless at even 150K miles; no rattles, no break-downs, nothing ever went wrong. We also had a Grand Am, and it was the most horrible, piece of crap ever. So we had to get rid of it quickly. That was the only domestic car we've ever had. Besides Honda and Toyota, I don't think those other Asian makes could be compared in the same league.

All of the evidence here is anecdotal at best. Your personal experience with a single American car does not give your opinions and assumptions much leg to stand on.

If we are to look at the various quality and reliability studies; domestic makers are commonly in the top 5 and quite often beat out Honda in various categories -- although rarely Toyota.

For what it's worth, I've owned a few Honda's, Toyota's and a Lexus -- none have been without problems, the Hondas in particular have had less than stellar quality construction and reliability.

It's true that because of one bad experience you can't conclude that all american cars are unreliable but everyone knows overall Japanese car makers make better quality and reliable cars than domestics. Can you mention any domestic brand more reliable than Toyota or Honda? ; ) .

Lets not forget about trade in value to.

I own a Ford explorer to. Just dont tell anybody.

I tried to stay out of this thread as long as I could, but I just couldn't do it.

One of the reasons for success of many domestic autmakers is that slowly but surely they've been exporting their factories to Mexico and to some extent Canada. Even if final assembly is stated as a domestic plant, much of the electronics, hardware (for example gas tanks) are made in 3rd world countries. This cuts their cost/car and gives them the profits that has made Ford and GM such great successes worldwide.

Check the Ford or GM investor prospectus for more info.

Now back to reality: If a supercharged V8 muscle car cannot destroy a normally aspirated 4 cylinder then something is wrong with the former, no?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by steve c

this is an interesting post so far that i have read..

first off.. if ur talkin about "sales of automobiles" and how well ford sells in AMERICA.. not in japan.. not in china.. not in europe.. but only in AMERICA!!

now i dont know about u.. but where i come from.. (taiwan) where i was born.. u dont see a single ford in that country.. just because they have good sales in america doesnt mean they are #1 in the world..

and as for quality.. ford can suck it.. not only is their quality crap.. their customer service is even worse.. the only reason why ford will never go out of business is becuase of all those damn crown victorias they have to sell to the black and white..

GM on the other hand.. i can honestly say builds quality cars.. chevy vettes.. caddies.. GM has probably one of the best customer service experience u will have.. my mom has purchased caddies for a good 15 yrs now.. and GM has always been nice and respectful to my mom.. i can NOT say the same for ford.. i've had complained.. talked to a lot of managers in my lifetime with ford.. and they have done nothing.. but as for GM.. they hop on the situation right away.. makin sure that u r satisfied with everything..

now.. any stock svt cobra will blow the lids off a stock s2k.. and we all know that.. my neighbor.. just bought a 04 svt cobra.. i hate fords.. but dont get me wrong.. he's a nice guy.. a diesel engineer.. builds cars for fun.. goes to the track and races.. his svt.. when he first got it.. he swapped out the stock blower for some 5k aftermarket blower.. that automatically made it into a low 12 sec car.. high 11's.. he has owned this svt for only 6 months tops.. and just last month.. he put in a blower that he purchased for 20k.. now his svt is a mid to high 9 car.. his mods are just the blower.. and 6 spd manual to a auto tranny.. if u guys have the chacne.. go to the fontana speedway on either sat or sun.. he is there most of the times.. its kinda hard to miss him.. he drives an 04 svt with auto.. it shuold be the only one there converted to an auto.. he also drives a 1970 or older model mustang.. i dont know what he has done.. but all i know is that it runs low 7's.. i know nothing about american muscle so dont ask me.. if u ask me.. its like askin a totally retarded kid to do math.. but if u ask me about my imports thats a totally different story :D

2002 JD Powers Initial Quality.

Car models ranking highest in their segment are:

Segments Car Models
Compact Car Toyota Corolla and Toyota Prius (tie)
Entry Midsize Car Chevrolet Malibu
Premium Midsize Car Buick Century
Full-Size Car Buick LeSabre
Entry Luxury Car Ford Thunderbird
Mid Luxury Car Lexus GS 300/GS 430
Premium Luxury Car Lexus LS 430
Sporty Car Mazda Miata
Premium Sports Car Chevrolet Corvette


Don't see any Honda's in that list ...

Some of the comments above are frankly what I would expect; but not hope for. At some point many of us will read some biased and incorrect information that berates domestic cars. For whatever reason many of us are willing to believe that information without performing any research of our own. The lemming effect kicks in and pretty soon you have a bunch of kids believing something that is simply not true --- and spreading it themselves.

The reality is that you can play with the numbers to draw all sorts of conclusions -- some of which contradict one another. In the end, blanket statements are almost always incorrect -- and as I said before, some of the domestic brands rank higher in various studies than some of the Japanese brands.

Basically living on Fords for most of my teenage years I can readily admit the quality of the cars is a step below the Japanese car makers. I have owned a Ford Taurus, Ford Thuderbird, and a Ford Mustang GT. The quality is not as good as the Hondas that my brother swears by. It is a simple experience. Ford cuts corners. It is evident in all of the Fords that I had. I now refuse to get anymore american cars. Since many Hondas are now made in america I think the poor quality is not based on the workers but on the lax standards of Ford, & GM. The most recent studies have found that while american car quality has improved it is still a step below Japanese. The american cars had an average of 18 problems per 1000 vehicles, the europeans had 20 (due to complicated electronics), and the Japanese had 14.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by steve c

Ford Is probably the worst of the American car company's. By experience GM is probably the best American car maker....

a reliable mechanic told me one of the differences between american and foreign made cars is like this..
american cars would use 4 bolts for this certain part while mercedes would use 12 bolts on that same part...

And yet Mercedes is consistently at the bottom of virtually every reliability survey ...

well the reliability isnt for mechanical problems...
usually the complaints are for constant maintanance

Reality of that is, to get 400+ hp, Ford and Mercedes would use a supercharged V8, BMW and Dodge would use an NA V10, Mercedes would come back with an TT V12, and GM would use a NA V8. Porsche uses a twin turbo flat six, Ferrari and Lamboghini use a V12, and pretty much no-one else even plays the game. To hear fans of Japanese makers ripping American car makers is somewhat ludicrous, since not a single Japanese maker has entered the ring of high-output sports cars. Oh, there are tons of excuses made by apologists, but the bottom line is, Asia has no representation in this elite group.

Ferrari makes some of the best sports cars in the world, but no-one thinks they are the best because of low maintenance costs or the fact that they never spend any time at the shop. There is a whole other way of judging cars. By that standard, Japanese makers have not contributed one car to the pantheon of the world's greatest sports cars. The RX7 was nice, but too weak. The NSX is, again, nice enough, but a little anemic. The Supra could be a player, but stock power levels were too low, and despite the popular belief that all Supras were born making 9000 horsepower, it takes cash and time to make big power with one.

There is not one Japanese sports car making 400+ horses. Kind of silly to try to argue quality when you can't even compete on output. Not very hard to make a transmission that can hold 150 lb-ft for ten years, try making a transmission that can hold 400+ lb-ft, while being abused on a daily basis. Not one Japanese maker does it, and the suggestion that they can is based purely on conjecture and assumption - you don't really know how a Supra owner drives every day, or if he does at all, but I know several people who drive their modded C5s 30 miles to work every day. You hardly ever see a Supra in an office parking lot, but if you believe the forums, there are more daily driven C5s than stock Civics.

Drop the whole "American cars suck/Japanese cars are the best" routine, everyone knows you are just trying to justify spending more money for a smaller and less powerful car than everyone else.

that JD power study is "Initial Quality", which basically means the highest % of cars that didn't have to have something fixed in the first XX days of ownership.

It's not an indicator of long term quality. The C5 is not famous for that.

On the fact Japan never enterd the high perf fray? Supra TT came out in 1993 with 320HP. That was more than the Vette at the time. The only American car with more power than the Supra was the Viper. What about the Skyline. The 3000GT VR4? The 300ZX Turbo? The Z came out in 1989 with 320HP. I think the only American car with that much power in that year was the 35th anniversary TransAm with the Turbo 6. Didn't the vette in the early 90's run 15's or high 14's, with these low power jap cars in the 13s??

[QUOTE]Originally posted by no_really

excuses, excuses, excuses.

[QUOTE]that JD power study is "Initial Quality", which basically means the highest % of cars that didn't have to have something fixed in the first XX days of ownership.

*cough* Corvette ZR-1.

-Steve, who commends no_really on one of the best posts this board has ever seen.

well now u have these new cars from japan playing ball
subaru sti
mitsubishi evo ..rs...mr
even the new forester is getting the same setup from the sti....

[QUOTE]Originally posted by no_really

Great, it's nice to see that someone with so much experience is willing to contribute to a topic they have so much experience with.

:rolleyes:

Yellafeva wrote:
What's even better -- instead of providing the "evidence" you claim is so handy -- you have opted to call no_really names instead -- and repeat information which we are all already aware of and which has already been mentioned in this thread. Kudos to you! I say keep up the good work and biased anecdotal "evidence" -- because I am more and more convinced!

Okay, I'm back. Here's report #1:

(Basically, it says that over the past 20 years, domestic cars have improved in reliability but still much behind the Japanese and slightly behind the European cars. I also took the liberty of highlighting a few stuff.)


-----------------------------------------------------
20 Years of Consumer Reports Surveys Show Gains in New Auto Reliability
TWENTY YEARS OF CONSUMER REPORTS SURVEYS SHOW DRAMATIC GAINS IN NEW AUTO RELIABILITY

American Vehicles have made Greatest Progress Improvement for SUVs and Pickups has been just as Dramatic

New cars have made dramatic gains in reliability, with American vehicles showing the greatest improvement, according to the Consumer Reports (CR) in-depth trend analysis of its annual auto-reliability survey information. Improvement for SUVs and pickups has been just as dramatic. The reliability gap between U.S. makes and European and Japanese makes is narrowing. But while domestic cars have made the greatest strides, they have had the most improving to do. Despite dramatic progress, new domestic cars in 2000 have only improved to about the level where new Japanese cars were in 1985.In its 2001 Annual April Auto Issue, for the first time CR takes a look back at two full decades (1980 to 2000) of auto reliability, comparing problems per 100 cars for vehicles that were then new. This year

That's because, generally, rednecks believe domestic cars to be superior, much like the KKK believes in white superiority. :rofl: The KKK is too stupid to realize that Jesus, whom they worship so much, was a Jew. :LOL:

Report #2:

-----------------------------------------------------------------
KeepMedia > AFP > Help
Asian makes top auto reliability survey
Mar 09 '04


DETROIT, United States (AFP)

Report # 3. Like I said, for every legitimate report you could supply that says domestic cars are just as reliable (not more reliable because this doesn't exist) as Japanese cars, I will supply 3 legitimate reports that say otherwise.

Since you kept on insisting on JD Power's report, here's one from them. 2004 Initial Quality rewards! "Initial quality" just makes me laugh, because it is what it says "initial". We're talking about long-term quality and reliability.

But anyway...
http://www.jdpower.com/auto/search/winners...yID=854&CatID=1

You can see that there are many more Japanese autos on that list, and there certainly are Hondas.

Report #4. I can go on and on and on...but there's really no more point to be made. The whole world generally considers Japanese autos to be the most reliable, much more so than American autos.

--------------------------------------------------------
Hyundai now ranks among best 2002 brands for reliability

YONKERS, NY--Mar. 10, 2003--Consumer Reports' annual 2002 auto reliability survey shows that domestic auto manufacturers continue to make solid gains in reliability and now build vehicles that are as reliable on average in the first year as those from European manufacturers. At the same time, the Japanese car companies continue to push the envelope by building more reliable cars than before and setting new benchmarks for the industry.

Korea's Hyundai has made a striking turnaround during the past decade and - for the 2002 model year - ranks with the best Japanese manufacturers. In CR's latest survey, Hyundai tied Honda for second-place in reliability ratings for 2002s behind Toyota.

For the 2002 model year, the average for the industry was 18 problems per 100 vehicles, down from 21 problems per 100 vehicles in the 2001 survey. American and European-branded vehicles both averaged 21 problems per 100 vehicles. Asian manufacturers - which include both Japanese brands and Korea's Hyundai - averaged just 12 problems per 100 vehicles.

Toyota topped CR's reliability ranking, with just 10 problems per 100, down from 12 per 100 last year. Honda and Hyundai tied for second place, with 11 problems per 100 vehicles. Subaru had 13 problems per 100, and Nissan had 15 problems per 100. Mazda had 20 problems per 100 vehicles.

Among domestic manufacturers, Chrysler ranked best, with 20 problems per 100 followed by GM with 21 and Ford with 23. The 2002 models from all three domestic car companies showed improvements over last year's levels.

Among European brands, BMWs and Volkswagens had 20 problems per 100 vehicles while Mercedes-Benz had 22 problems per 100 vehicles.

In a similar analysis of foreign and domestic brands published in the April 2002 auto issue, Consumer Reports found that the average for all 2001 models was 21 problems per 100 vehicles. Models made by Japanese car companies averaged only 15 problems per 100. European- and American-branded vehicles averaged 23 and 24 problems per 100 vehicles, respectively.
------------------------------------------------------------------

Report #5, from MotorTrend and J.D. Powers.

---------------------------------------------------------------In Reliability, Detroit forces BMWs, Benzes Off the Road
"In fairness, the Japanese probably still lead the industry," says Hossack, "but I think Americans will close the gap to the point where it's not really significant."

Reliability, of course, is not the only factor consumers consider when buying a car. Nowhere is that more apparent than at this week's New York International Auto Show, where Ford, GM, and Chrysler are showing off their latest designs. They are introducing a flashy new Mustang, redesigned sedans, and even a sexy Buick convertible to win back buyers who have turned to imports because of style, innovation, and efficiency as well as quality.


While imports have taken over the small-car and crossover sport-utility markets, Detroit has clearly made gains, too. Cadillac, for one, is surging. It ranked seventh in reliability in the J.D. Power survey out of 37 brands.

European manufacturers, on the other hand, have declined sharply in quality in their rush to expand model lineups to match US and Asian competitors. For the first time, European brands such as Mercedes-Benz, Volkswagen, and Audi have fallen behind the Americans in both J.D. Power and Consumer Reports studies.

"The domestics are gaining, particularly on the Japanese imports," says Mr. Walters at J.D. Powers.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

[QUOTE]Originally posted by yellafeva
Mazda had 20 problems per 100 vehicles.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by carrrnuttt

Only problem I have with most import owners is that they would rather have 240hp from a 2.0L motor because its "engineering" than have 300hp from a 5.0L motor because "thats the easy thing to do."

That attitude still cracks me up.

thats an ignorant statement
why do u think they make 240 hp from a 2.0
because of weight and balance
the 5.0 motor that makes 300hp and thats the same price will most likely not handle the same way as the 240 hp.
when u do make 300hp out of a 500hp u have to start engineering the car around that heavy piece on the front....
and all that engineering adds up $$

:iagree:

Kumar your lame ass attitude crack us up ;) .

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.s2k...1631f20626.jpg


Guys for you that know, please don't waste anymore time with this special individuals.

Can a MOD please close this thread? The usual monkeys already F#$%ed it up ;) .

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BruteHareS2k
http://gallery.s2ki.com/imagecatalog/image...eview/113934/6/

^ :rofl: Yeah there is so much fact here :LOL:
I don't know who bullshits the most you and your trolling friends or the S2000 dream team :LOL: .
Either way its not about the S2000 anymore and I could give a :spam: about what you or others think ;) .

You can go check my facts, if you want. Subjective ratings are not a very reliable indicator of quality, IMHO. You can find data to support any side of an argument, so you might as well look at the facts and make your own decision, rather than just spewing out what other people have already said. And it isn't a one-or-the-other situation. You can like Japanese cars without thinking every other car in the world is inferior.

http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/specs/...r1/zr1perf.html

http://www.cars.com

http://www.fantasycars.com/derek/list.html

http://www.mbusa.com/brand/models/S600V.jsp

http://www.altavista.com