2022 GR86 86 vs. S2000
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,370
Likes: 138
From: Cali
2022 GR86 86 vs. S2000
So, with much more info available now, and car reviewers getting some actual seat time (not just shows and looking at it), as well as dyno numbers... your thoughts?
Dyno numbers (savagegeese) is 206-209whp and 176wtq.
That's a significant difference from a stock Ap1 (or even Ap2)... esp the torque!
Ap1: 185-200whp, 125-135wtq
Ap2: 190-210whp, 135-145wtq
If I ever crash my Ap1 or its' engine takes a dump or if it gets stolen, I can definitely say without a doubt that its' replacement will be a 2022 GR86.
It has everything I could want of the S2k and much more - faster, more torque, coupe (I will never afford a $5-6k hardtop lol), much less repairs of aging and/or discontinued parts, folding rear seats for tons of trunk space, quieter interior because a proper coupe, stiffer chassis with better modern materials/design/aero, etc.
Honestly, the only thing I really like about the S2k is really its' engine, chassis/handling and Rwd (and I also love Honda).
Engine... yes, F-series is sublime. And, the FA boxer doesn't seem that great... but at least it's been revised with more power/displacement, very high-compression for NA, other mods and better tuning.
Chassis/handling... so many other cars these days handle just as good or better; so, nothing really special about the S2k (S2k's aero sucks too).
Rwd... same as above, not special.
Your thoughts on the new GR86?
Dyno numbers (savagegeese) is 206-209whp and 176wtq.
That's a significant difference from a stock Ap1 (or even Ap2)... esp the torque!
Ap1: 185-200whp, 125-135wtq
Ap2: 190-210whp, 135-145wtq
If I ever crash my Ap1 or its' engine takes a dump or if it gets stolen, I can definitely say without a doubt that its' replacement will be a 2022 GR86.
It has everything I could want of the S2k and much more - faster, more torque, coupe (I will never afford a $5-6k hardtop lol), much less repairs of aging and/or discontinued parts, folding rear seats for tons of trunk space, quieter interior because a proper coupe, stiffer chassis with better modern materials/design/aero, etc.
Honestly, the only thing I really like about the S2k is really its' engine, chassis/handling and Rwd (and I also love Honda).
Engine... yes, F-series is sublime. And, the FA boxer doesn't seem that great... but at least it's been revised with more power/displacement, very high-compression for NA, other mods and better tuning.
Chassis/handling... so many other cars these days handle just as good or better; so, nothing really special about the S2k (S2k's aero sucks too).
Rwd... same as above, not special.
Your thoughts on the new GR86?
Popular Reply
Sep 30, 2021, 02:42 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 349
Likes: 117
I have a 2020 BRZ as a daily and a S2000 as a weekend car.
Once the GR86 gets its mid-cycle refresh and Brembos it will replace the current BRZ.
The S2000 will always stay in my garage. I recently drove the same backroad in the BRZ one day, the S2000 the other day. The BRZ/86 experience was boring compared to the S2000. The S2000 with the top down, chassis moving, and VTEC going, is an incredibly engaging experience. The S2000 makes your hairs on your arms at the end of the drive, and makes you think "wow, that was amazing" after a good run up a twisty road. Yes, both are RWD, both have good handling, but their characteristics are very different. The S2000 is sensitive, rotates quickly, and asks more of the driver, whereas the 86/BRZ is an easier drive and asks less of the driver. The 86/BRZ is decent fun, comfortable, capable chassis, but it doesn't make you say "wow". It's a compromise car, and always will be. The new one won't change that.
Once the GR86 gets its mid-cycle refresh and Brembos it will replace the current BRZ.
The S2000 will always stay in my garage. I recently drove the same backroad in the BRZ one day, the S2000 the other day. The BRZ/86 experience was boring compared to the S2000. The S2000 with the top down, chassis moving, and VTEC going, is an incredibly engaging experience. The S2000 makes your hairs on your arms at the end of the drive, and makes you think "wow, that was amazing" after a good run up a twisty road. Yes, both are RWD, both have good handling, but their characteristics are very different. The S2000 is sensitive, rotates quickly, and asks more of the driver, whereas the 86/BRZ is an easier drive and asks less of the driver. The 86/BRZ is decent fun, comfortable, capable chassis, but it doesn't make you say "wow". It's a compromise car, and always will be. The new one won't change that.
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 315
Likes: 56
it is likely my next go to car after a mid cycle refresh for time trial type competition in non motor swap classes.
with no F engines on the horizon at reasonable prices, competition using the F engine makes less and less sense.
i would probably still keep the s though, just be retired for the occasional fun drive
with no F engines on the horizon at reasonable prices, competition using the F engine makes less and less sense.
i would probably still keep the s though, just be retired for the occasional fun drive
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,045
Likes: 104
I didn't get a chance to watch the video yet but I do have some thoughts. They are both great cars but I believe the s2000 is still capable of being a much better car in every way once you get in to modifications. When most people look at cars like this they look at it as the factory giving a foundation to build something better. The f series is better in just about every way and can handle over 500hp with ease. The transmission is best in class and the car handles amazing.
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 425
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From: Massachusetts
2005 Honda S2000 AP2.1 (Hankook RS3) 1:44.2
2022 Toyota GT86 (Michelin PS4) 1:44.81
Performance is about equal to a stock AP2 on old tires. I think they'd really need a control tire as the RS3 isn't even a tire that's made anymore, up against fresh PS4 tires. Tires are a big difference.
I will note, it only took Toyobaru 10 years of Gen 1 development to catch up to the S2000 whereas the Miata took 18 years. I say bravo to Toyobaru.
Can we all stop to appreciate that the S2000 is still a relevant benchmark even over a decade after it's departed from the factory?
2022 Toyota GT86 (Michelin PS4) 1:44.81
Performance is about equal to a stock AP2 on old tires. I think they'd really need a control tire as the RS3 isn't even a tire that's made anymore, up against fresh PS4 tires. Tires are a big difference.
I will note, it only took Toyobaru 10 years of Gen 1 development to catch up to the S2000 whereas the Miata took 18 years. I say bravo to Toyobaru.
Can we all stop to appreciate that the S2000 is still a relevant benchmark even over a decade after it's departed from the factory?
Last edited by rush2redline; Sep 29, 2021 at 01:47 PM.
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,370
Likes: 138
From: Cali
I really want to know how the FA24 in the GR86 was modified. It's clearly from an SUV-line Subaru... and they obviously removed the turbo. But, it has very high compression (good for NA). I wonder if the cams, pistons, etc. were changed too for higher rpm application and better NA performance.
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 349
Likes: 117
I have a 2020 BRZ as a daily and a S2000 as a weekend car.
Once the GR86 gets its mid-cycle refresh and Brembos it will replace the current BRZ.
The S2000 will always stay in my garage. I recently drove the same backroad in the BRZ one day, the S2000 the other day. The BRZ/86 experience was boring compared to the S2000. The S2000 with the top down, chassis moving, and VTEC going, is an incredibly engaging experience. The S2000 makes your hairs on your arms at the end of the drive, and makes you think "wow, that was amazing" after a good run up a twisty road. Yes, both are RWD, both have good handling, but their characteristics are very different. The S2000 is sensitive, rotates quickly, and asks more of the driver, whereas the 86/BRZ is an easier drive and asks less of the driver. The 86/BRZ is decent fun, comfortable, capable chassis, but it doesn't make you say "wow". It's a compromise car, and always will be. The new one won't change that.
Once the GR86 gets its mid-cycle refresh and Brembos it will replace the current BRZ.
The S2000 will always stay in my garage. I recently drove the same backroad in the BRZ one day, the S2000 the other day. The BRZ/86 experience was boring compared to the S2000. The S2000 with the top down, chassis moving, and VTEC going, is an incredibly engaging experience. The S2000 makes your hairs on your arms at the end of the drive, and makes you think "wow, that was amazing" after a good run up a twisty road. Yes, both are RWD, both have good handling, but their characteristics are very different. The S2000 is sensitive, rotates quickly, and asks more of the driver, whereas the 86/BRZ is an easier drive and asks less of the driver. The 86/BRZ is decent fun, comfortable, capable chassis, but it doesn't make you say "wow". It's a compromise car, and always will be. The new one won't change that.
