kenvai

AP1 vs AP2 – An Owner's Perspective


I thought about this long and hard; on how to approach this question for people who haven't had the opportunities to drive the AP1 and AP2 back to back. About 2 years ago, I bought an AP1 from a friend of mine, sight-unseen. An AP1-2001, 30,000 miles, mint condition, 100% Stock.

Two of my friend subsequently purchased a 2003MY and a 2007MY. And I had the pleasure to drive all three back to back with mine. And spent valuable seat time in all three to dissect the settle differences and characters. At least in my view as an owner, or perhaps, try to answer some questions that I didn't have when I was making the decision of buying mine.

First of all, I'm a 5'11”, average driver who goes to the track occasionally, not a racing driver by any means, but I do understand some physics of weight transfer, thread-hold braking, heel-n-toe...slightly advanced driving. It's important for me to mention this because we will talking about ergonomic and driving dynamics.

Vehicle Conditions
2001 AP1 S2000, 30,000 miles – Tires: Bridgestone S-02, 60% left.
2003 AP1 S2000, 50,000 miles – Tires: Continental something..., 80% left.
2007 AP2 S2000, 50,000 miles – Tires: Bridgestone RE-11, 80% left.

Ergonomically, the lack of adjustment on the steering wheel and seat height are my main complains. You either choose to seat closer which you should in high-performance driving condition, and scarifying come leg room, which you need in doing proper heel-n-toe, so I ended in a compromised driving position, it's by no mean uncomfortable, but just not what you expect from a sports car. In one sentence: the seat is just not low enough to feel “cocooned” in the cockpit. A friend of mine whose a couple of inch shorter than me said the seating position is perfect. But I still think the steering wheel should be adjustable.



On the street, the AP1 has the hardest ride, but it does pay off at cornering ability, even with my S-02 tires getting to the end of their life, there still sufficient grip out of second gear corners, and hard acceleration.

On the track, without a shadow of doubt, the AP2 is faster, in fact, the AP2 is an overall more refined car, the engine remains almost the same, but because the redline is reduced to around 8,000rpm, you do feel the car is spending less time in each gear therefore yielding slight faster acceleration. As well as a more linear powerband compare it the AP1's 9,000 rpm redline. Retuned suspension means that you can almost “react” to the car at its limit, like any good sports car.

In my opinion, the E46 M3 because a good handling car because it's break-away characteristics is progressive, an average driver can “catch” the oversteer, on the hand, F1 cars are “bad handling” cars because it's so sensitive at the limits, you don't much F1 driver drifting through a corner, do you?

Compare it to the AP1, often if you “react” to what has happened, often it's too late, you have to anticipate what will happen. Perhaps the AP1 has a better credential as a racing-car on the road? It does show, because the rear anti-sway bar on the AP1 is thicker than the front. As the Honda continues to develop the S2000, this ratio changed slowly but surely, at the end of the run, the ratio was completely reversed, from 218 front and 291 rear changed to 256 and 207, respectively.

AP1 was Honda's vision for the S2000, an open-top pure-bred sports car with race-car-like precision handling that ask for the driver to do everything right and punish if you make a mistake, it even had a plastic rear windows to save weight. But they slowly evolved the S2000 and at the end of its life, the AP2 S2000 became “friendlier” sports car, for the lack of better terms.

I found driving the AP2 gave me great confident, even within the AP1, the 2003MY is very different from my 2001MY, probably because the tires conditions. In tight corners, I often found myself drop it down to first gear and feed in the throttle on exit. But on the AP1, I often stay in second because the first gear in the AP1 has a break-away characteristic reminisce of a racing car, you need to be very precise with your steering input as well as weight transfer. The AP2 just offers a slightly bigger margin of error.

If you like to drift, do silly things with it on the track, the AP2 is a better choice because it's just an “easier” car to handle, (still not as easy as an E46 M3) the break-away characteristic is more progressive and manageable. The AP1 on the other hand is bit of a handful, in the first month of owning the car, I often found myself stabbing the throttle at mid corner just to find where the limit was. But the AP2 was intuitive right at the beginning.

If you are planning on a low-mileage, unmolested AP2, it will probably set you back north of $20,000. But the similar condition AP1 would only be about $15,000-$18,000, which in my opinion, is the biggest bargain on the used sports car market right now. The savings are significant enough, and save the money to buy a second set of wheels and tires, and proper maintenance. Then spend some time on the track.

I would go for whichever offer better value, and that's exactly what I did.

Good Luck! Really hope this would help you get a better feel of both generations of S2000.


Anson Liu




February 22, 2014 - Follow up...

Thank you for all your responses.

It's not my intention to compare AP1 and AP2 as for which is the a better car. I didn't want to generate a debate as there are plenty of that already. I want to give future S2000 owner an idea of how two generations differentiate from each other. Something I truly wish I had before buying mine.

It's important for me to say that, we are comparing two nearly identical cars with different characters, and it's also imperative to mention that we are comparing STOCK cars, PLEASE, if you start putting AP2 anti-roll bars and 17” wheels on the AP1, that's not an AP1 any more. If you are supercharging or turbocharging the poor 2.0/2.2 liter engine, that change the characters of the engine, that's not an S2000 anymore....whenever a modification is done, the comparison test became invalid. You can't honestly compare a turbocharged AP1 is a better car than a stock AP2.

AP1 and AP2 are both fantastic sports cars. And for the money, seriously, what can you buy for $15,000 that's better in terms of performance & reliability?

jeggy

I owned an ap1 (MY00) and an 08CR at the same time. I agree with the majority of what you said. I spent the majority of my autox time spinning and jabbing at the limits of the ap1 jist so I can be familiar with it. I cpuldnt agree more on your statement that you can't react to the ap1, instead you have to predict what its gonna do.

rob-2

There is no track diff. Best motoring proved it years ago.

Alignment and sway bar will chAnge the cars a lot.

Stock00S2K

I swapped out MY01 rear sway bar for an MY07. Also threw on AP2V1`s and starspecs. Huge difference right there.

Fokker

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkcC2uzcQgk

RedCelica

While I have an 07, I'd love to get an ap1 for track duty

kenvai

For me, as a normal driver (Best Motoring employs only racing drivers). There are differences on the track, the AP2 is more forgiving, and the AP1 is more "edgier" at the limit.

I watch Best Motoring as well, a big fan in fact. My conclusion from that was, a stock AP2 is faster than a stock AP1 and a lightly modified AP1 can easily outperform a stock AP2 and that just showed how much potential all S2000s have. Maybe I didn't understand it?

Plus I'm more interested in the dynamics of a car under stock setup, because once you start modifying, there is no comparison to speak of.

kenvai

I wish I have the opportunity to test drive the CR, how does it feel compare to a normal AP2?

Lazyrider69

I get a kick out of the AP2 guys always quoting this Best Motoring video as undeniable proof the AP2 is overall superior. It was one race and difference was negligible. You cannot tease out driver variables in that particular race or in the Car and Driver tests that put AP1 figures ahead of AP2 tests they had.

Yes I own an AP1, but I couldn't care less which car is MARGINALLY faster, better handling etc. But looking at stats and objective data from Car and Driver and other magazines, both the AP1 and Ap2 are almost identical with best numbers coming from the Ap1s across the board. 0-60 times in 2003 Car and Driver has Ap1 at 5.4 seconds as do other magazines. In fact the AP1 numbers beat out most of the stats of even the 2008 S2000 CR numbers and the 2004 AP2. see below for links...

My point is that there is no Ap2 without AP1. And the AP1 engine is what differentiated out car from all others and won International Engine of year award 4 years in a row in its class. The AP2 won once. They are on in the same with subtle differences, but just like how Porsche won't make the Cayman win out over its big Iconic brother the 911, I doubt Honda wanted Best Motoring having the "older" S2000 edging out its new design....

2003 AP1 stats
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...st-results.pdf


2008 CR stats
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take-road-test

2004 AP2 Stats
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...a-s2000-page-5

05thumper

I've had both and drive an AP1 now. I sold my '05 with 60k miles (bought it new) for $20k. Looking back, it was a mint stock car and is probably worth more now. I ended up getting my '01 with 101k miles for less than $10k. It was in good shape just needed a little work here and there and runs perfect now. For a long time I liked the AP1 better but lately I've been looking at used AP2s. I think the AP2 is an overall better car mainly due to the refinement. Well, maybe I'm just getting old.