Brake Fade
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,370
Likes: 4
From: Vancouver, WA USA
Brake Fade
After my first track day on my 2001, which consisted of 4 runs at 15 minutes each my brakes feel completely shot on the road. They are extreemly mushy durring normal driving. I have not had them looked at yet but I think I boiled the break fluid (I hope its not the roters or pads). My question is, why would they do this??? My S2000 still only has 2500 miles on it. I would think a car designed for the track would have breaks that lasted a little bit longer under pressure.
Banned
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,263
Likes: 1
From: On the lakefront...
No GB is necessary to fix this problem. What you need to do is have high performance brake fluid. It's as simple as that. If you wish to make more modifications to your brakes to add performance, that's fine, they will all help prevent fade. But the VERY FIRST thing to you need to do is go with a high perf DOT 4 fluid. I use and recommend Motul DOT 4 (just bought 4 more bottles of it today, in fact)
It has a high boiling point of 585 degrees and is the singlemost important thing you can do to prevent fade.
If you want to get into different pads, rotors, ducts or stainless steel lines, that is fine, but you MUST start with a high performance brake fluid.
Now, you should flush your entire system of ALL the stock fluid and replace it with some kind of racing fluid if you track the car. If you DON'T get all the old fluid out, you will not get all the benefits of running the more expensive and better performing racing fluid.
Start with fluid, then start doing other things. It's the least expensive and quickest way to obtain excellent results to improve braking and to help prevent fade.
It has a high boiling point of 585 degrees and is the singlemost important thing you can do to prevent fade.
If you want to get into different pads, rotors, ducts or stainless steel lines, that is fine, but you MUST start with a high performance brake fluid.
Now, you should flush your entire system of ALL the stock fluid and replace it with some kind of racing fluid if you track the car. If you DON'T get all the old fluid out, you will not get all the benefits of running the more expensive and better performing racing fluid.
Start with fluid, then start doing other things. It's the least expensive and quickest way to obtain excellent results to improve braking and to help prevent fade.
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,218
Likes: 0
From: Gardena
I'd still recommend searching the archives for further information.
I personally would never again consider racing the S2000 on the track with stock brake pads. I learned my lesson early on, and I've been fortunate enough to help many others in procuring Porterfield pads, (who by the way, all swear by them).
And yes, changing the brake fluid is also highly recommended (and included in the group buy).
I personally would never again consider racing the S2000 on the track with stock brake pads. I learned my lesson early on, and I've been fortunate enough to help many others in procuring Porterfield pads, (who by the way, all swear by them).
And yes, changing the brake fluid is also highly recommended (and included in the group buy).
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,467
Likes: 3
From: Davie, FL
Greg gives excellent advise and Ben offers products that will enhance your car's track performance.
After my first track day, my brakes felt as you describe - mushy! The fix was as simple as Greg mentioned - change your brake fluid - do it now! If you plan to use the car on the track, I'd upgrade the fluid to Motul, as Greg recommends, or any other high-perfromance fluid such as Ford Motorsport HD (yes, it works well and is cheap), or Castrol Synpower (the brand that I use). The key is to increase the boiling point of the fluid. Once the fluid boils, air becomes trapped in the lines leading to the mushy feel. I chose Castrol because it has a higher wet boiling point than most other high performance fluids. This means it retains its ability to resist boiling even if it sits in the car for a few months. Other high performance fluids have higher dry boiling points, so resist boiling better as long as you change fluid often.
Although not required to fix your mushy feel problem, I also recommend upgraded pads for track use. I use Porterfield R4S pads and they are great!They improve brake feel and resist fade much better than stock pads, but they create more brake dust. After using up a full set of OEM pads on the Sebring short course in about 3 hours
I decided to use Porterfields. I also learned that it is always a good thing to have extra brake pads and fluid at the track just in case.
Here is a link to a previous discussion on brake fluid, pads, etc. http://www.s2000online.com/forums/showthre...hlight=synpower
Keep having fun on the track!
After my first track day, my brakes felt as you describe - mushy! The fix was as simple as Greg mentioned - change your brake fluid - do it now! If you plan to use the car on the track, I'd upgrade the fluid to Motul, as Greg recommends, or any other high-perfromance fluid such as Ford Motorsport HD (yes, it works well and is cheap), or Castrol Synpower (the brand that I use). The key is to increase the boiling point of the fluid. Once the fluid boils, air becomes trapped in the lines leading to the mushy feel. I chose Castrol because it has a higher wet boiling point than most other high performance fluids. This means it retains its ability to resist boiling even if it sits in the car for a few months. Other high performance fluids have higher dry boiling points, so resist boiling better as long as you change fluid often.
Although not required to fix your mushy feel problem, I also recommend upgraded pads for track use. I use Porterfield R4S pads and they are great!They improve brake feel and resist fade much better than stock pads, but they create more brake dust. After using up a full set of OEM pads on the Sebring short course in about 3 hours
I decided to use Porterfields. I also learned that it is always a good thing to have extra brake pads and fluid at the track just in case.Here is a link to a previous discussion on brake fluid, pads, etc. http://www.s2000online.com/forums/showthre...hlight=synpower
Keep having fun on the track!
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 9,210
Likes: 7
From: WA
There are two things that happen to the stock brakes at the track.. brake fade from boiled fluid and brake fade from overheated pads.
The DOT3 fluid in the car is good for the street and absorbs water more slowly than performance fluid but does not do well with high heat. Fluid failure makes for a mushy pedal.
The pads on the car do well until they get overheated. When very hot they lose stopping ability requiring more pedal pressure and producing longer stops. Once cooled the pads will take many stops to clear the baked surface and return to normal.
Replacing both fluid and pads is a good idea if you go to the track often.
The DOT3 fluid in the car is good for the street and absorbs water more slowly than performance fluid but does not do well with high heat. Fluid failure makes for a mushy pedal.
The pads on the car do well until they get overheated. When very hot they lose stopping ability requiring more pedal pressure and producing longer stops. Once cooled the pads will take many stops to clear the baked surface and return to normal.
Replacing both fluid and pads is a good idea if you go to the track often.
Trending Topics
Registered User
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 663
Likes: 0
From: Austin
I did the mods backwards in my Prelude. I couldn't find Motul locally when I upgraded the brakes with SS Lines, slotted rotors, and PBR Pads. I tried using Castrol brake fluid. It faded after one 100 mph stop. Scary. Honda fluid faded after a few high speed stops. I put Motul in yesterday and I could not get the fade casued by fluid. My pedal felt the saem the whole time. The pads are another story. The stock honda pads seem better than this crap.
