I just posted this in another thread but thought that it was more "general" in nature and maybe fit better elsewhere. I've been making some observations over the last few years and wanted to share my opinions with others here and get some feedback on what others have noticed.

I'd have to concur that this message forum is more open-minded than the Spyder one from an outsiders perspective looking in (don't own either car). Aside from a couple of Porsche and Ferrari sites that I frequent, oh and a Lexus site, I like this one a lot.

Something I've noticed from a psychological perspective is that the need to "brag" about one's car or to "mod" it is inversely proportional to the value of the car and often the age of the driver.

Take as an example the Ferrari F-360, most of the guys with them never mod them unless it is simple and sweet and won't destabilize the car in any way, you won't find F-360 owners "chipping" their cars. Then come down to say BMW M Roadster or Porsche Boxster owners. A few of them will modify their cars, but since the factory has been really good about squeezing out horsepower often times there isn't a lot you can do with out major changes. Take for example the stock exhaust on a Boxster S is better performance wise than 95% of all aftermarket exhausts, sound is debatable but dyno charts don't lie. You don't see an M Roadster owner buying "blue look" headlights or "ultra whites". Moving down in price to the S2000 you see a bit more mods and a bit more bragging, but since it is still over 30K, it's still within reasonable amounts IMHO. Once you break below the 30K barrier you start running into these guys who "coulda bought the Porsche if I wanted..." and "dude check out my stainless steel quadruple pipe exhaust with tips by Folgers" or "with only 20K in mods I can kick your &*&@#". These things become much more prevalent. This seems to hold true for both american cars (mustangs and camaros as an example) and for japanese cars (Spyders and Civics as an example). I think the notion of "Snobbery" runs in the opposite direction. Owners below 30K are much more likely to view a Porsche or BMW owner as a "Snob" than say a BMW owner is vs. a Ferrari owner.

I've also noticed a difference in the ability to "follow through" or "organize" among the differing groups of owners. I'm not certain where S2K owners fall so please feel free to give me your opinions. A couple of examples come to mind, both Boxster and Z3 owners have a national annual event that is well attended by owners from across the country. These owners are willing to step up and do what it takes to make something like that a success because they enjoy their cars and enjoy sharing their experiences with other owners. I'm not sure this is the case below 30K. Spyder owners tried for almost a year to organize a national event and nothing ever happened, too many differing strong opinions and no organization. Even if we look at something like a modification to the car I've found that owners under 30K like to "talk" a lot about how they'd buy some modification if it were available, but once it is available few will actually step up and buy it, the turbo for the Spyder being just one example, although probably a more noticeable one since the car came from the factory with low HP, Miatas fall into the same boat although since they've been around longer I think their owners have mellowed a bit and have more female owners.

This makes me wonder about some newer cars as well. Take the Lexus IS 300, a shade over 30K, although dealers were marking them up, instantly equipped with "riceboy" tailights and gauges. At over 30K I'm not certain their largest target audience can afford it but rather they seem to be targeting the "tweeners" - people who are in the process of making the transition in life from a below 30K car to an above 30K car and trying to provide them aspects of both. Not frequenting any IS 300 sites I can only imagine what a hodge podge that must be.

If anyone is doing a psychological study, I think this would make an interesting subject to examine especially when crossed with age of the individual as another factor. Many of the under 30K crowd tend to be younger and less seasoned. I actually ran my own interesting experiment last year that bears out a lot of this. I was working in California for a year and needed something cheap and sporty since I knew I'd be selling it after I moved to my new location. I bought a Spyder because I "thought" that the experience would be similar to Z3's, Boxsters and other sporty convertibles that I've owned in the past. From a "fun to drive" perspective it was, make no mistake the car was fun to drive, but from an ownership perspective it was vastly different. People wanting me to stick coffee can exhausts on my car, ultra white headlights, carbon fiber dash kits, etc. I tried a few mods (really reminded me of high school but without the big block engine to go with it) and came to the conclusion about what a waste of time it was, I quickly grew tired of others trying to tell me what was best for me or for my car. There is a big difference between "opinionated" and enthusiast. "But duuuude if you only stick a turbo on that thing you will rock!!!", yeah whatever. So I sold the car and moved back above 30K and what do you know - sanity!

Now some of you might be sitting there going "I own a Honda Civic and I'm not like that". True, absolutely, couldn't agree more, I would never say that ALL owners are like this. Heck the majority of car owners buy a car for simple transportation and never do anything to it other than put gas in it. However, on a percentage basis of overall owners I find that 30K seems to be near the cut-off point in attitude of those who do feel more enthusiastic about what they drive. If you spend time with owners of each car as I've done in person and through forums like this, you'll probably discover that what I've outlined here is true. Does it make one better than the other? Not really, just different. It is human nature to gravitate to others that we feel more comfortable with, I didn't realize how uncomfortable I was with the group under 30K until I bought a car under 30K last year and hung out with some of them. They weren't "bad people" they just didn't talk about things I was interested in or want to do things I like to do. Moving over 30K and hanging out with a different crowd I feel more comfortable because they like to do things I like to do and we share common experiences. Does this mean I won't talk to someone who owns a car less than 30K? Absolutely not, heck just last weekend myself and my bud that owns an S2K went out cruising with our girlfriends on a Friday night because the temp had cooled off. Stop for ice cream, hang out and talk. At one point we pull into a gas station to get something to drink. We come out and there are a bunch of people near our cars and one guy with a mustang wants to race. Why? "I've done X mod and Y mod and I think I'm faster than you". Hey great, good for you, but I don't care, I have a serious girlfriend and I'm man enough to admit I like ice cream!

So to sum up, I find this site, and the owners here to be more representative of the over 30K (and possibly over 30 ) crowd than the under 30K crowd. For me, that's a plus and one of the reasons I like reading this site to compare some of the experiences with other over 30 owners.

My intention in this message again is not to put any owner "down" or try to make anyone feel "superior" it is merely a summation of human behaviorial observations that I have made relative to the different cars that these individuals own.

I am curious if others have noticed the same thing?

 

I think your observations are pretty accurate. I think the highest correlation to "modding" the car with non-performance enhancing goodies (bold graphics, heavy wheels, etc.) is probably age.

About bragging, I can't really say. I think the value of the car probably has something to due with it. Since there are SO MANY Civics, et al. out there the owner has to distinguish himself from the pack. A McLaren F1 owner simply doesn't need to do this. OR, it might just be simple inferiority complex.

Based on the length of the post, are you doing your Ph.D. dissertation on this subject? I'm sure the ricers would be very interested to see this published

 

I believe that for the most part, what you observe has to do a lot with age, but more specifically maturity.

In generaly, the younger a person is, the less expensive of a car they can afford. Thus spyder owners, civic owners are mostly going to be your highschoolers, etc. Above $30k is a fairly hefty sum for a car. So unless the person is older and have a well paying job, he/she won't likely to have one. Sure there are the cases where 16-19 year olds are being spoiled by their folks, but we won't get into that.... my personal belief is that no 16 year old should be driving anymore more than a used civic, unless they can pay for it themselves.

-Shing

 

I think this is pretty accurate. However, I think that it's not really bragging so much as it's convincing themselves that they bought an awesome car, but doing it "out loud".

Another aspect of the modding thing is affordability. Some people simply can't cut the payments on a $33000 car (or whatever it ends up being), so they buy something cheaper and in then throw more money at it trying to make it "better" then the expensive car they "passed on" (couldn't afford).

Personally, I'd love to 'trick out' my S2000 (especially after seeing gregstevens, GTRPower, and hecash's rides), but every time I get in it and drive it, the only thing I find lacking is the stereo (which is getting yanked over the winter), something that sucks on pretty much all cars.

 

Speaking on the "abilty to organize".... I attribute this 95% to money and 5% to age. It takes more than one person to pull off a large meet. You have to have several people with some common sense to handle all the planning. Then the money comes in. On various boards and lists I'm always hearing the typical 17 yr old civic owner saying that he can't make it to a Saturday meet (not even a night involved) because he 1) has to work or 2) doesn't have the money. If you try to get the money out of them for 1000 miles of gas and a couple nights hotel room it just won't happen.

BMW Z3/coupe owners have enough money to take off and make a vacation of it. Of course, most S2000 people do as well, but that's your point.

On a side note, I've always attributed most "rice" to a simple lack of money. When you expose someone with no cash to import magazines full of show cars bad things happen. Their wallets get overwhelmed by the desire to be in "the scene". Rather than saving for something nice [which I much admit is hard at low wage rates] they go out and buy the things they can afford. Bulbs, stickers, emblems and if they're lucky they can save up for some muffler tips or even a wing.

The desire to modify has always been around. The modification of engine parts on domestics in this country has been commonplace for years. Even mild aesthetic changes were common. The push over-the-top in recent years has come from a US culture trying to emulate the Japanese. They know how to modify a car... all out. The best anyone here can usually muster is a half-ass attempt at "JDM Style". We don't have access to the manufacturers or distrubutors of these parts and are left with the vulture companies with no sense of quality only interested in stripping money from the teenagers.

Personally, I would love for a US maker to build a car I wanted to own. At least then I'd have easy access to ALL the parts available for it without having to sell a kidney and a testicle to buy them. It'll be a cold day in hell before I get on a 4 month waiting list for the slow boat from JDM land.

Ok, I'm all over the place and should just delete this, but what the hell.....

 

Isn't purchasing a $125,000+ Italian sportscar the ultimate expression of "ego", which is exactly what "bragging" and making high-visibility modifications expresses as well?

To me, the overweight, underhaired, poorly skilled driver of a Modena is as ego-challenged as the 17-year old running around in Mom's civic with "Type R" stickers and a loud coffee-can exhaust.

I love Ferrari's too, but I could never see myself feeling comfortable driving around something that conspicuous.

...well, maybe for a long weekend!

 

You do realize that this is nearly word for word what is posted by CRX and Civic owners about S2000 owners, right? They say we are all old, fat, bald guys going through mid-life crisis. It looks like the fat/bald/old/skill-less line starts at the next performance level above the person making the comment.

I see nothing wrong with me buying an S2000 if I can afford it and it gives me the performance and characteristics I want. I won't suddenly get older, balder, fatter or lose my driving skills.

I see nothing wrong with my boss buying a Ferrari if he can afford it and it gives him the performance and characteristics that he wants. He won't suddenly get older, balder, fatter or lose his driving skills.

I see nothing wrong with my boss' boss buying a McClaren if he can afford it and it gives him the performance and characteristics that he wants. He won't suddenly get older, balder, fatter or lose his driving skills.

 

Let me start by saying that I have never modded a car in my life. I haven't the skills or desire.
However, whilst I agree with some of what you say I think that there are some fairly straightforward points that you may have missed.

You suggested that the over 30k folks have cars that are often pretty highly tuned in the first place. This is true to a degree and I would certainly include the S2000 in that category (Without wanting to whip out any genitalia to wave around).

The point I think that you didn't state is that many people don't want to invalidate warranties on cars this expensive, they also don't want to take risks to reduce the life of their vehicles, and the resale value of the car.

At the other end of the scale, a car that is worth much less carries less financial risk (In real terms). Often those who have modded their cars learn their 'craft' with an old banger so that they have acquired the 'bug' by the time they buy a more expensive car. Some of their mods actually enhance the value of their old banger or lower cost car. As someone said above these mods help distinguish their car from the general mass and so make it more attractive in resale.

When they get to that bigger car they then are more willing to have a go - They are better skilled and feel less risk. These people are almost certainly the ones who form the hardcore of the over 30k car modders.

Some of us who have never modded would probably only concern ourselves with mods that don't expose our warranty to risk.

As for your comments on age they are probably true except I may take a slightly different slant - I suspect that the older the modders get the less far their income goes (They may be forced to address other issues such as Housing, Marriage, Children, etc) and also they may have less time to mod their cars. It would be interesting to also investigate the lifestyle choices of the modders below and above the 30k mark. I guess that they may be single or childless people and on the whole mainly men.

I don't see this just as a need to brag or really a maturity issue (Unless the term maturity is applied to lifestyle).

Anyway, you've raised an interesting topic - Thanks for that,

Kind Regards,
Sam.

 

I would disagree with the assessment of Ferraris. Most owners I know buy them as "works of art" and don't drive them very much, or own a couple and put some away and drive others. The same way that if I had say a 427 mid-60's convertible vette that I wouldn't drive it much, I'd look at it as a piece of automotive art from a bygone era. Most mass-produced cars will never reach that kind of status or uniqueness. Some folks collect paintings, others action figures and others Ferraris!

 

Oscar Jackson, of Jackson Racing, gives an excellent presentation that he calls "suffering from improvement". Interesting stuff!

Ryan