I agree with s4play on this.

 

randycsvt : Please define "rare" ~ IF YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT CARS NO ONE ELSE WANTS, yes you might get a good deal but if you are talking about rare as in high demand cars forget it. I like to see you walk into a dealer and try to low-ball them for a 2013 GTR, or how about a new NSX? Or try a GT3 RS?

What cars did you buy that was rare and you sold for a profit? I highly doubt these were new cars, used perhaps?


What I'm getting at is that for a new car, you can only do so much before the dealer laughs you out of their dealership or politely shows you the door. Like I said we bought our CT for invoice and we were pretty happy.

Used cars are a totally different ball game and at that point it's just a matter of offering them a price they can live with at that moment. If you are one of those guys with bankruptcy or bad credit, they may be more keen to sell you a car even at a lower price because on the back end they will be laughing all the way to the bank by charging you 13% APR or higher!

I know some of you guys here are younger but if you ever break down a simple car loan, you would realize they are making a ton of money on you even at a low interest rate of let's say 5%. Let's say the car is $21k, you put down $1k cash, finance $20k over 5 years at 5% APR, you would be losing at least $100 bucks per month to interest charges. That's $1200 per year, $6000 over the course of the loan rate for 5 years. Guess what, your killer deal $20k s2000 suddenly became a $26k car.

 

Waaaayyy tooo much work and drama involved. I have purchased 24 cars in my lifetime and here is what I do.

This pertains to used car dealer purchases: I summize that the dealer pays about 25% less than he advertises unless it is a rare car. So there is some wiggle room . In calif there is about 10% tax and license and fees which are not part of the cost to the dealer but to the purchaser and are not negociateable. So I figure I offer 10% less and get the car out the door for the asking price. That is a fair deal and involves a reasonable profit. I have made it out the door a few times only to be pulled back in, so be ready to leave, no deal is that important.
Do not need a car now, that shows in your attitude, want one and be ready to give it up for a better deal down the road.

New cars , go to carsdirect.com and print out the car deal, then call or email a dealer...tell them the car, extras, color choice(s) the choices is better than just one choice, that you are a buyer and ask for their best deal on that car. Email 4 dealers min and see what happens, one will bite or the demand market for that make and model is just too high. Have the deal firmed up before you get there so you can just walk in and pay for it and leave...tell the finance guy you don't want anything like chrome fender dents and clearcoating, he will offer it anyway but it will shorten the sales pitch. Have your deal written down in your pocket for refernence. Also tell them you are a buyer....

Private party, qualify the car before you go, ask questions, then when you get there see if it is what you bargained for. If so then you can make any reasonable offer, certainly 5-10% off is not insluting. Know your market first by looking at several examples of what you want for differing prices. If you like the car you can always go home and call the person to negociate. Things change and so do circumstances, you can buy the car or loose it....know it is a good deal by educating yourself first.

In the end, if you can follow these tips, not set in stone, you can get a good car for a reasonable deal without the drama and ego bull assoicated with dealing with anyone. Be a buyer and let them know it.

 

Good info, but the number one factor to me is "how bad do you want the car?"

If you don't really care, offer them whatever.
If you do care, offer them what you think is reasonable and not overpaying.

That's what I did and I got my current S, one I wanted very much, by offering a reasonable amount, lower than they asked too.
I couldn't have gotten a better car and I knew it (19K miles 2007-just about mint)


-m

 

This is an approach I have never thought of
Very smart strategy indeed!

 

Eventhough i work at a honda store I could not get my hands on a good clean s2k so i searched online for awhile and found an 06 bbap2 with only 9000 miles at a ford dealership in south jersey..Found out it was traded in for a shelby350 at the time.. I did exactly what you said and worked out the price,financing,insurance and everything else over the phone with the salesperson and just inspected the car and only found a scrape on the bumper that they took care of while I waited. Im a salesperson but also a consumer and this approach works as long as its communicated and translated well over phone or email..
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This is exactly how i've bought my last few cars--- from my daily driver Venza ( talked to internet managers at 2 dealers over the phone-- one worked a great deal for me), my wife's Crosstour ( had to talk with internet managers at 3 dealers and wound up driving 120 miles to pick up the car but saved almost $2000 over my local Honda dealers) and bought my first S2K that way--- i'm in Ohio, found the car I wanted new in Hyanannis Mass, called and talked to the internet manager who gave me a great deal ($27,800 plus tax for a new '05 Silverstone in October 05) he said "it's October and we figure if we dont sell the car now, we'll have it all winter, it's yours at that price). i spent $360 on a one way airline ticket to Cape Cod, the dealer picked me up and drove me to the dealership and after about 45 minutes of paperwork, i drove it all night back to Ohio.
Dealing with the Internet Manager is the only way i'll buy a car from a dealer now--- one of them told me he got a flat $$ amount for every car sold rather than a percentage so he was interested in offering me a car at a good price so I'd buy it ---the purchase price didnt impact how much he made so he tried to agressively price every car he could.
You can find the internet manager's name on the dealer's website-- they''re used to finalizing deals over the phone and taking a credit card deposit of $500--$1000 down on the car which is rolled into the financing and a credit is given back on the card.

 

When I say rare, I mean enthusiast cars. They don't have to be expensive to be rare. I bought an SVT contour that was one of 2,760 made and that car was really cheap. There are plenty of great low volume cars that most enthusiasts would love to own, but dealers have a tough time selling. When I bought my CTS-V I found that many local dealers had them sitting on their lots for months! I don't know about you, but a CTS-V with a 400hp/400tq LS6 Corvette engine and 6 speed transmission sure was appealing to me. I have also found that some things as simple as just a manual transmission make a car hard to sell for a dealership. I was looking at a manual 335i at a local dealership. It has been sitting there forever, because the typical BMW buyer wants an automatic.

I have never bought anything high demand such as a GTR or GT3. That kind of money would be put to much better use in an investment property. I typically buy used and I don't tend to buy cars for over $30k. Not knocking anybody who does, my long term financial goals don't line up with spending my money on expensive cars that will depreciate. There is always some car out there that fits my budget and puts a smile on my face.

In regards to new cars, I find it is even easier to make a great deal. When buying used you can't be as picky and kind of have to deal with whatever colors or options you happen to find on the market. When buying new you can build it however you want on the manufacturer's website and use apples to apples comparisons to make a great deal

I recently bought my wife a new VW Tiguan. She really wanted a manual and it was hard to find them on the used market. I went to the VW website, looked up all the dealers in my area that had thecar I wanted I played them against each other to get myself a deal. The negotiation was super easy because all the dealers i called had the exact same car I wanted just in different colors. Cheapest one got my business.

I think the whole concept of invoice pricing is BS. The only thing that determines what a car is worth is what it's current market value is in the area it is being sold. Every new car I bought has been well under invoice. I believe dealers use invoice pricing as some way to con buyers into thinking they are getting the car at or close to cost. This also applies to most high demand cars I had shopped for in the past.

In regards to selling a car for a profit, you can't do that with a new car. Depreciation hits too hard too quick for anyone to make a profit on a new car. I have done so with used cars. My best example is the SVT Contour I bought. I bought that car my junior year of college. I owned it for 5 years and put 90k miles on it. I sold it for slightly more than what I paid for it. All that car cost me in the end was insurance, gas and some maintenance. Nothing like owning a car for a while for almost free. I could sell my S2000 now and break even. I have owned it for almost three years and put 55k miles on it.

 

My rules for car negotiation are simple. Rule 1- Don't be afraid to walk away. Rule 2- Never buy anything you can't pay cash for. When your spending your money and not there's you always have the advantage. Rule 3- Don't fall in love. Cars are like women, there freakin everywhere. Don't marry the first one you F-ck. Rule 4- If at all possible, buy from an individual. Dealers are the domain of slime. There is hardly a more worthless career than that of a car salesman. Avoid this scum like the black plague. They can and will say or do anything to get a sale. Rule 5- If you absolutely must buy from a dealer, do not under any circumstances buy any kind of extended warranties or coverages. This is known as pure profit in the auto business. Rule 6- Have a budget and stick to it. If you have 10k to spend on a car, don't get suckered in to a 20k car, because you know you can make the payment. See rule number 2. My father sold trucks at a local ford dealer for a few years. Being an honest, very religious man it quickly took a toll on him. He was actually a good salesman and did quite well. The constant onslaught of evil(what he called the rampant lying and dishonesty of his coworkers) quickly drove him out of the business. Be careful at a dealer, those who are not well informed and strong of character can be easily sold on things they can not afford. If you think i'm bullshitting your very nieve. They were actually required to take sales classes on how to convince people to buy out side of there means, and how to make terrible interests rates and bad deals sound wonderful. It was packaged as sales training, but it was really how to screw people over 101. Next time you go, lowball the shit out of them. Example. My 4runner, sticker 18,900. Paid 12 cash out the door. My s2k. Sticker 29,900 paid 24,600 out the door. Wifeys Volvo sticker 31,900 paid 25,000 otd. All three times I made my offer, it was refused, I said thanks and got up to leave. They never let me get out the door. See rule number 1.

 

Guys all this talk made me remember an article I read with great interest.

If you guys have some time to kill, read this article from another poster on nsxprime, REALLY good stuff as a magazine sends a writer undercover to become a used car salesman. After reading this article you start to appreciate a good sales guy. Most of the high end dealers I've been to never used these tactics so my only guess is this must be for mainstream cars like Toyota, Chevy, Ford, etc.

http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showth...light=salesman

 

That is exactly what I do(did), as was the example of the $20k Red down in L.A. I offered $20k cash provided the car was as advertised, out the door. I was told he couldn't do it due to the market blah blah blah. I didn't tell him this, but I certainly thought it was strange he said no to taking 10% off a used car "asking" price. I mean, is he expecting the stickered price? At any rate, that car is now down to $19.2, and I am tempted to offer $20k out the door again, but I don't get my garage until early July.

These cars are only getting older and summer will pass. It will be another 20 years before anyone can convinve me these cars are some form of rising commodity. The median price for this car in the bay area has gone up about $5k to just over $21k since fall of last year. Makes me laugh sometimes. I was super close to buying a 2005 Red stickered at ~$14.5k back then. Grrrr