Driving With My
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Joined: Feb 2004
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From: Dry Branch
I don't think the weight of the shift knob will matter much, unless the knob is ridiculously heavy. All the mass of the shift knob is going to do is change the resonances of the shift-lever/shift-knob combination, and that shouldn't have much affect on anything, as long as the shifted resonances don't corrospond to other critical resonances. Some of the buzzing problems with the RPSS are probably due to this kind of corrospondance, but since I don't have the problem I don't have any way to determine whether or not it is enough to cause additional wear.
A hand on the shifter is an entirely different matter. The forces aren't just additional mass, but rather a connection to a sorce of force that is totally unrelated to the normal shifter movements and vibrations. Plus, it takes a hand off the steering wheel, which is not a position a good driver gets into unnecessarily.
As for riding the clutch without taking up the freeplay, it won't hurt anything as long as you never depress the pedal enough to put any pressure at all on the throwout bearing. It's difficult (if not impossible) to determine exactly where that point is from the drivers seat, plus most of the time it is better to have your left foot on the dead pedal (that's what it's there for). This helps hold you in the seat when you don't have a full harness and submarine belts. There are times however, when I keep my foot on the clutch pedal and take up some of the freeplay. It's rare, but if I shift (up or down, doesn't matter) and then see I'm going to need to shift again almost immediately for some reason, I'll sometimes keep my foot on the clutch, letting it engage fully, but not letting the pedal come all the way back up. I think the only time I do this is when autocrossing, and even then it's rare.
I do not fully depress or release the clutch when double (de)clutching, because it's quicker to just work the clutch back and forth through it's narrow engagement range.
I'm not positive that shift knob weight is totally irrelevant, but a lighter knob that allows more vibration than a heavier knob would probably cause more wear. I'm running one of the heaviest knobs I know of (the Honda solid TI knob) on top of the lighter RPSS, and I'm really not concerned about the shifter or knob increasing transmission or shifter wear. In most cases I think it's a non-issue.
A hand on the shifter is an entirely different matter. The forces aren't just additional mass, but rather a connection to a sorce of force that is totally unrelated to the normal shifter movements and vibrations. Plus, it takes a hand off the steering wheel, which is not a position a good driver gets into unnecessarily.
As for riding the clutch without taking up the freeplay, it won't hurt anything as long as you never depress the pedal enough to put any pressure at all on the throwout bearing. It's difficult (if not impossible) to determine exactly where that point is from the drivers seat, plus most of the time it is better to have your left foot on the dead pedal (that's what it's there for). This helps hold you in the seat when you don't have a full harness and submarine belts. There are times however, when I keep my foot on the clutch pedal and take up some of the freeplay. It's rare, but if I shift (up or down, doesn't matter) and then see I'm going to need to shift again almost immediately for some reason, I'll sometimes keep my foot on the clutch, letting it engage fully, but not letting the pedal come all the way back up. I think the only time I do this is when autocrossing, and even then it's rare.
I do not fully depress or release the clutch when double (de)clutching, because it's quicker to just work the clutch back and forth through it's narrow engagement range.
I'm not positive that shift knob weight is totally irrelevant, but a lighter knob that allows more vibration than a heavier knob would probably cause more wear. I'm running one of the heaviest knobs I know of (the Honda solid TI knob) on top of the lighter RPSS, and I'm really not concerned about the shifter or knob increasing transmission or shifter wear. In most cases I think it's a non-issue.
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,852
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From: Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted by RED MX5,Nov 18 2007, 01:39 PM
I don't think the weight of the shift knob will matter much, unless the knob is ridiculously heavy. All the mass of the shift knob is going to do is change the resonances of the shift-lever/shift-knob combination, and that shouldn't have much affect on anything, as long as the shifted resonances don't corrospond to other critical resonances. Some of the buzzing problems with the RPSS are probably due to this kind of corrospondance, but since I don't have the problem I don't have any way to determine whether or not it is enough to cause additional wear.
A hand on the shifter is an entirely different matter. The forces aren't just additional mass, but rather a connection to a sorce of force that is totally unrelated to the normal shifter movements and vibrations. Plus, it takes a hand off the steering wheel, which is not a position a good driver gets into unnecessarily.
As for riding the clutch without taking up the freeplay, it won't hurt anything as long as you never depress the pedal enough to put any pressure at all on the throwout bearing. It's difficult (if not impossible) to determine exactly where that point is from the drivers seat, plus most of the time it is better to have your left foot on the dead pedal (that's what it's there for). This helps hold you in the seat when you don't have a full harness and submarine belts. There are times however, when I keep my foot on the clutch pedal and take up some of the freeplay. It's rare, but if I shift (up or down, doesn't matter) and then see I'm going to need to shift again almost immediately for some reason, I'll sometimes keep my foot on the clutch, letting it engage fully, but not letting the pedal come all the way back up. I think the only time I do this is when autocrossing, and even then it's rare.
I do not fully depress or release the clutch when double (de)clutching, because it's quicker to just work the clutch back and forth through it's narrow engagement range.
I'm not positive that shift knob weight is totally irrelevant, but a lighter knob that allows more vibration than a heavier knob would probably cause more wear. I'm running one of the heaviest knobs I know of (the Honda solid TI knob) on top of the lighter RPSS, and I'm really not concerned about the shifter or knob increasing transmission or shifter wear. In most cases I think it's a non-issue.
A hand on the shifter is an entirely different matter. The forces aren't just additional mass, but rather a connection to a sorce of force that is totally unrelated to the normal shifter movements and vibrations. Plus, it takes a hand off the steering wheel, which is not a position a good driver gets into unnecessarily.
As for riding the clutch without taking up the freeplay, it won't hurt anything as long as you never depress the pedal enough to put any pressure at all on the throwout bearing. It's difficult (if not impossible) to determine exactly where that point is from the drivers seat, plus most of the time it is better to have your left foot on the dead pedal (that's what it's there for). This helps hold you in the seat when you don't have a full harness and submarine belts. There are times however, when I keep my foot on the clutch pedal and take up some of the freeplay. It's rare, but if I shift (up or down, doesn't matter) and then see I'm going to need to shift again almost immediately for some reason, I'll sometimes keep my foot on the clutch, letting it engage fully, but not letting the pedal come all the way back up. I think the only time I do this is when autocrossing, and even then it's rare.
I do not fully depress or release the clutch when double (de)clutching, because it's quicker to just work the clutch back and forth through it's narrow engagement range.
I'm not positive that shift knob weight is totally irrelevant, but a lighter knob that allows more vibration than a heavier knob would probably cause more wear. I'm running one of the heaviest knobs I know of (the Honda solid TI knob) on top of the lighter RPSS, and I'm really not concerned about the shifter or knob increasing transmission or shifter wear. In most cases I think it's a non-issue.
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Joined: Apr 2007
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Originally Posted by RED MX5,Nov 19 2007, 07:09 PM
I've made quite a few friends here on S2kI, but that may well be the nicest thing anyone here has ever said to me. 
Hahaha, I may well be old enough to BE your grandfather.
Hahaha, I may well be old enough to BE your grandfather.
very informattive thread tho
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 9,409
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From: Calgary
So after reading all this I think it pretty much confirms what many of us thought about this, it's not a good thing to do but won't be catastrophic in the short term to do it. Ie. Avoid it if possible, and it is possible.
Side note: This tender little moment at the end was a nice start to my day. Nobody better close this thread to discourage this sort of off-topic posting, it is well-needed around here sometimes! That is, unless we start ending every thread with love...
Side note: This tender little moment at the end was a nice start to my day. Nobody better close this thread to discourage this sort of off-topic posting, it is well-needed around here sometimes! That is, unless we start ending every thread with love...
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 22,888
Likes: 3
From: Covington WA, USA
As was mentioned a few times but not emphasized enough, your hand should be on the steering wheel anyway. You have much more control over the car with two hands on the wheel than you do with one.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,191
Likes: 10
From: Saint Augustine, FL
A Vegas member had to have his tranny rebuilt, and attributed it to resting his hand on the shifter all the time. I tend to rest mine on the e-brake handle. 
He wasn't the best driver though and may have chunked his gears a different way.
-Hockey
He wasn't the best driver though and may have chunked his gears a different way.
-Hockey
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,087
Likes: 2
From: Dry Branch
Originally Posted by mikegarrison,Nov 20 2007, 10:51 AM
As was mentioned a few times but not emphasized enough, your hand should be on the steering wheel anyway. You have much more control over the car with two hands on the wheel than you do with one.
Thanks Mike.