The 8th gen civic's VSA is completely defeatable...isn't it? You just hit the button to turn it off. It works that way in my 06 TSX. I had a 06 Si for a bit and I seem to remember just turning it totally off.

Anyway, in the S2000, VSA turns completely off via the button. If the triangle is lit, you're free to do your skids.

The first thing I do when I get into my 2007 is turn off the VSA. The second thing I do is a massive skid.

UNLESS I forget to turn off the VSA. In which case the skid comes first and the 2nd thing I do is to turn off the VSA.

 

Now you can see my advanced age kicking in. I completely forgot i sold them to you!

Is there a silverstone powder available? Exactly what powder did you use?

What tires are you running?

I think I got frustrated because the paint refinish I spent a fortune on was soft and did not hold up real well. Maybe I should just have them powder coated and sell these ultra expensive CE28n wheels I am driving now. I continue to think that for street driving the 16" wheels are the way to go.

 

to be honest I do not know the color or type of powder he used. I remember getting the question before and never came up with a good answer. It’s a local company to me that did them. I gave him the color code and he went with it.

went with Dunlop Direzza DZ102 in stock sizes for now. I needed something to put on the car for winter storage as my car came with 3 flat tires. I’ll play with these for the summer and see what to do after

 

You've likely seen this before, but just in case you haven't here is more food for thought for you. Skip ahead to the 7:05 mark to get to the point where they start discussing the chassis differences between the cars and how swapping 16" for 17" wheels and vice versa impacted things, if at all. (I tried to include this start point in the youtube link, but it doesn't appear to be working at this time.) Even despite this rather telling information, I would still highly encourage you to keep those JDM BBS wheels and consider using them either sooner or later. (Sorry, but I just have the image of an AP1 S2000 sporting those JDM BBS wheels etched into my mind at this point. Nothing looks better on those cars to my eye. Yes, clearly I am biased and I'm not denying it.) If nothing else, were I to ever end up with an AP1 you could sell those wheels to me at that point in time, lol.

 

Yes, I do remember that video. I honestly think that performance differences observed by professional race drivers driving at the limit do not necessarily translate exactly to the average Joe driving on back country roads, which is what I do. Sure, maybe that set up, (ap2 with 17" wheels and lower profile tires and different suspension characteristics), works a bit better for race driving. One driver commented near the end that the 17" wheels on the ap1 did not change much. But, I'm not so sure that holds for street driving. Not to mention the likely motivation for that video - marketing.

What I have noticed is that the 17" wheels on my ap1 make the ride a bit on the harsh side without really providing much in the way of street driving performance gains that I can perceive anyway. I don't see it as a big deal frankly, one way or the other.

 

In these videos on this track with these drivers:
1. 2d generation S2000 (face lift, 2004) suspension and wheels makes a faster car than the 1st generation.
2. AP2 engine (2.2 liter) is faster still.
3. 17" wheels and tires on the 1st generation is faster than stock.
4. Tuning helps.

What's 0.5 second/lap speed advantage on this track? 45 feet or maybe 3 car lengths? Important stuff.

-- Chuck

 

That's pretty much the point that I'm trying to make. This is also one of the reasons why I am also encouraging you to consider hanging on to, and using those gorgeous 16" JDM BBS wheels. They just seem like such a perfect match for your AP1. If the main goal is to change the looks of an AP1 car by switching from 16" to 17" wheels then I get it. I can also understand the attraction to the wider selection of tires this provides. But as far as any other gains are concerned I've always thought them to be overblown unless someone has also gone to the effort to modify the chassis of their AP1 (as I know some have done) as this was one of the primary changes made to the AP2 cars. Unlike the AP1 cars, those AP2 chassis changes were made in conjunction with the increase in wheel size and the resulting tire profiles. That's probably one of the biggest points the video made. But as you've pointed out, in the real world for the average Joe on the street these differences are going to be reduced greatly.

Essentially a skilled driver with an AP1 running 16" wheels could easily outdrive a less skilled driver piloting an AP2 with the wider 17" wheels. For drivers of average skill, any real differences would seem to be minimized. The one remaining point that would potentially have impact for some would be tire choices especially if they are mixing in track use. The harsh reality for someone like myself is that when it comes to a car like the S2000, my own skill set is the single biggest limiting factor when it comes to the car's handling. As you've already noted, in the hands of the majority of owners most gains on the street are likely little more than perceived gains. Regardless of any of this, reducing your car's unsprung weight by using those forged BBS wheels while potentially eliminating some of the harshness that you alluded to certainly doesn't seem like it would be a bad thing.

 

My opnion on using AP2 parts on AP1's is that the driving experience with AP2 parts is almost always an improvement (with a few exceptions, of course).

Back when my AP1 was my only S2000 (track and street use), I switched to 17's, AP2 trans, and AP2 rear subframe. No regrets in terms of the way the car drove. The added speed and predictability at the track was a nice bonus too. 9K RPM is nice though. Now that I have an AP2 and no longer even track the AP1...I still have no desire to switch back to the older subframe or anything else. The car feels way better with the AP2 parts. I can trace a line on fun back roads better. The trans is snappier and smoother. Etc.

My ONE regret is changing the headlights and front end to AP2. I love the way the AP1 looks with the factory lip.


To explain...
The difference between street and track car setups is the way that data is translated.

Street cars translate data mostly into perception (feel, looks, etc) for the driver. Secondarily, and to a smaller extent, the data is used to actually make the car fast.

Track focused cars have that translation flipped. Make the car fast. Make sure its predictable. If we can make the car fast enough that the driver can be replaced by an actual potato...then good.

The AP2 FEELS significantly faster in short bursts of speed and handling for most drivers.

Trick is, its actually faster....just by a smaller margin than it feels. So that's an impressive feat from the engineers, considering that the AP1 was a really good starting point.

Honda did a great job with the handling and power/torque delivery improvement of the AP2.

Even despite the AP2's (RE050) disadvantage in ultimate tire grip over the AP1 (S02), its able to actually put down power on corner exits in a more useful and relaxed manner. If tire compound was standardized...the ultimate grip from wider/lower profile tires would be (is) massive.

I would disagree than 16" wheels would give more driver confidence or feedback than the 17's...that's quite contrary. I suppose that this is subjective since the driver is the one actually translating this feedback. I think the AP1 was released with 16" wheels because of the period it was developed during (the mid 1990's). In typical Honda fashion, the 16's were outdated when the car debuted.

Looks are, ofcourse, much more subjective.

Anyway...point being that the AP2 is a better car than the AP1 in almost any measurable sense.

As far as driving dynamic....I own a MY00 and a MY07...and I can't quite confirm what people are on about when they say they prefer the more "raw dynamic" of the AP1. The AP1 chassis just feels more wobbly to me (comparing against an equivalent AP2 of course). I suppose its more lively during spirited driving thru very tight corners. Aint no tight corners in IL...so...maybe idk.

I'm sure the S2000 was released as a fun toy that was supposed to feel compromised but lively with its cute 16" wheels and massive bump steer suspension. And then Honda looked around to see what year it was and what the competing cars were doing for less/same cost. So they made the AP2 more serious, but without ruining it by making it a "track car" that's all about data.

But the addage that AP1's were the "more pure vision of the engineers" sounds a bit illogical to me. I used to be an engineer. There wouldn't be a REV2 if REV1 ticked all the boxes. REV2 is virtually always a net improvement over REV1....and its almost always closer to the ideal vision one had for the project.

If nostalgia is your game...then I I completely get it. Enjoying the car "as is" is definitely worthwhile. I just don't agree that its always a net positive in terms of actual feel, to go back in time.

Driving a Model T would be cool for nostalgia for like...an hour. But almost nobody is gonna say how they REALLY enjoy the driver feedback and precision as compared to a modern Mustang.