Going fast on curves
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Joined: Jun 2002
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From: Portland
Originally posted by xviper
However, beyond a certain speed, my answer would be:
Lift knees as high as possible, tuck head down between knees and do the best you can to KISS YOUR ASS GOOD-BYE!
However, beyond a certain speed, my answer would be:
Lift knees as high as possible, tuck head down between knees and do the best you can to KISS YOUR ASS GOOD-BYE!
Every car has a limit, once exceeded, not even the skills of Michael Schumacher can recover. And, no skill is required to drive past that limit! A momentary lack of concentration, or more often, overconfidence/foolishness are the only pre-requisites.
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 16,231
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From: Kingston, WA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chazmo
[B]True, any car can get you into trouble when you exceed its limits, but the thing about the S2000 is that it goads you to explore those limits -- and, those limits are high.
[B]True, any car can get you into trouble when you exceed its limits, but the thing about the S2000 is that it goads you to explore those limits -- and, those limits are high.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 184
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From: Portland
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chazmo
[B]
True, any car can get you into trouble when you exceed its limits, but the thing about the S2000 is that it goads you to explore those limits -- and, those limits are high.
[B]
True, any car can get you into trouble when you exceed its limits, but the thing about the S2000 is that it goads you to explore those limits -- and, those limits are high.
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 190
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From: South San Francisco
I also learned this lesson the hard way. I was taking an onramp when this ricer in a civic was asking for it. Thinking I was so cool, I gunned it through the onramp and let off the gas while at about 7000k rpm. Needless to say, the rear tires lost traction and I almost spun out. A very humbling experience for me, and I'm actually going to invest in some track time to get a better feel of the car and its limits.
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Joined: May 2002
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From: Bedford
A couple of easy fix's, upgarde your front sway bar to the whiteline 30mm solid bar. MUZ sells them for $200 usd and that includes shipping.
This will reduce oversteer, help control snap throttle oversteer.
For example, the stock set up for MY02 is 26mm hollow front and 28 mm hollow rear. This car is enginered to "drift" In addition the front springs are softer than the rear. This also contributes to the rear end coming around.
Without spending crazy money, a better alignment could also reduce this problem, such as -1.3 camber front with +6.4 caster, 0.0 toe and -2.25 to -2.5 camber in the rear and .4 total toe IN, this will keep the rear end planted a little better. $100 for a good performance lazer alignment.
For $300 you could have a more comfortable experience cornering in the car and knowing that the rear end wouldn't come around. BUT, pushing the car in a safe environment is the only way to really know.
At first auto cross event last year in this car, I looped the car into a 720 spin out, twice in the same event in the same corner.
The stock S02's could also contribute to the oversteer that some have experienced like myself. They are a great street tire until they are too hot or too cold. The design of the S02 has a square like contact patch and stiff sidewalls, this design doesn't allow for much structural give, so therefore pushes against the ground harder, compressing the rear spring and creating tail spin, because the front sway bar isn't strong enough to keep the rear end planted.
I also disagree with auto-x first before hitting the track. On the track you take softer more exagerated lines, that are more graduale and take a steady hand and foot. Auto-x is quick jerky, off and on driving with lots of input of, steering, throttle and brakes all in 45 seconds with a max speed of 60 mph. Versus a e 1-2 minute road course that you can hit well over 100 mph, with 50 mph right/left hander and 80+ mph chicanes.
My statements are based on my experience with the local SCCA solo 2 course designs out here in DFW and my track experience at Texas Motor Speedway. I have been auto-x for 14 months and have 6 track events under my belt, I am no expert, just offering my opinions based on my personal experience over the last year.
I didn't like the stock nature and behavior of the car when it is really pushed so I started making changes. Now the car is set up for my driving style and it is much more predictible.
This will reduce oversteer, help control snap throttle oversteer.
For example, the stock set up for MY02 is 26mm hollow front and 28 mm hollow rear. This car is enginered to "drift" In addition the front springs are softer than the rear. This also contributes to the rear end coming around.
Without spending crazy money, a better alignment could also reduce this problem, such as -1.3 camber front with +6.4 caster, 0.0 toe and -2.25 to -2.5 camber in the rear and .4 total toe IN, this will keep the rear end planted a little better. $100 for a good performance lazer alignment.
For $300 you could have a more comfortable experience cornering in the car and knowing that the rear end wouldn't come around. BUT, pushing the car in a safe environment is the only way to really know.
At first auto cross event last year in this car, I looped the car into a 720 spin out, twice in the same event in the same corner.
The stock S02's could also contribute to the oversteer that some have experienced like myself. They are a great street tire until they are too hot or too cold. The design of the S02 has a square like contact patch and stiff sidewalls, this design doesn't allow for much structural give, so therefore pushes against the ground harder, compressing the rear spring and creating tail spin, because the front sway bar isn't strong enough to keep the rear end planted.
I also disagree with auto-x first before hitting the track. On the track you take softer more exagerated lines, that are more graduale and take a steady hand and foot. Auto-x is quick jerky, off and on driving with lots of input of, steering, throttle and brakes all in 45 seconds with a max speed of 60 mph. Versus a e 1-2 minute road course that you can hit well over 100 mph, with 50 mph right/left hander and 80+ mph chicanes.
My statements are based on my experience with the local SCCA solo 2 course designs out here in DFW and my track experience at Texas Motor Speedway. I have been auto-x for 14 months and have 6 track events under my belt, I am no expert, just offering my opinions based on my personal experience over the last year.
I didn't like the stock nature and behavior of the car when it is really pushed so I started making changes. Now the car is set up for my driving style and it is much more predictible.
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Joined: Apr 2003
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From: Hawaii
We don't have a track that compares to Thunderhill or Willow Springs but for Hawaii only, I can tell you that track driving first before autocross is very dangerous.
Our local track (that we run Solo-2 events also) is made up of worn out asphalt that should've been repaved 20 years ago. Loose gravel can be found on the delicate sections of the course and there's hardly a safety margin should you go off the track at 80mph in the grass for example which will 75% of the time guarantee that you'll hit something, hard. That combined with a very narrow course doesn't give much options. At least during Solo-2 events, should they spin out and off the track, the speed isn't enough to carry them too far away from the pavement to really hit something hard.
I've seen a few people come out to track their cars and unfortunately, they're not setup for track driving. Some of the cars would reach 120mph or more on the long straight but the loose gravel will sandblast your fenderwells clean to the metal. From what I've observed in the past, most novices tend to brake very late and use their throttle like an on/off switch, making things worse for the car.
Most cars using stock equipment won't last more than 3 laps here without severe brake fluid boilover, and some cars will have their pads literally smoking after 3 full laps. Novices tend to bring out their cars on stock tires which gets greasy after hard driving and a recent event had an S2000 flip over in the sweeper just before the long straightaway.
Of course, track driving experiences will vary from place to place, my example is specific to Hawaii/Oahu only and may not apply elsewhere. My advice to someone is the same regardless of where you drive. Start off slow, put a lot of time behind the wheel, if your budget allows for in-car driving instruction, do it. Learn the car to learn about yourself. Don't expect a "mod" to fix your lack of technique, learn the technique and all the basics first before doing anything to the car. There's no shame in admitting that you're an inexperienced driver, we all must start somewhere. What makes you more admirable than the rest is that you are willing to take the time and learn.
More seat time, more seat time, more seat time.
Our local track (that we run Solo-2 events also) is made up of worn out asphalt that should've been repaved 20 years ago. Loose gravel can be found on the delicate sections of the course and there's hardly a safety margin should you go off the track at 80mph in the grass for example which will 75% of the time guarantee that you'll hit something, hard. That combined with a very narrow course doesn't give much options. At least during Solo-2 events, should they spin out and off the track, the speed isn't enough to carry them too far away from the pavement to really hit something hard.
I've seen a few people come out to track their cars and unfortunately, they're not setup for track driving. Some of the cars would reach 120mph or more on the long straight but the loose gravel will sandblast your fenderwells clean to the metal. From what I've observed in the past, most novices tend to brake very late and use their throttle like an on/off switch, making things worse for the car.
Most cars using stock equipment won't last more than 3 laps here without severe brake fluid boilover, and some cars will have their pads literally smoking after 3 full laps. Novices tend to bring out their cars on stock tires which gets greasy after hard driving and a recent event had an S2000 flip over in the sweeper just before the long straightaway.
Of course, track driving experiences will vary from place to place, my example is specific to Hawaii/Oahu only and may not apply elsewhere. My advice to someone is the same regardless of where you drive. Start off slow, put a lot of time behind the wheel, if your budget allows for in-car driving instruction, do it. Learn the car to learn about yourself. Don't expect a "mod" to fix your lack of technique, learn the technique and all the basics first before doing anything to the car. There's no shame in admitting that you're an inexperienced driver, we all must start somewhere. What makes you more admirable than the rest is that you are willing to take the time and learn.
More seat time, more seat time, more seat time.