Handling ?s
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From: Newman Lake
You can also induce oversteer by hitting the brakes, even lightly, when making a turn at speed. Hitting the brakes shifts the weight of the car to the front tires and off the rear tires reducing friction in the rear. Do not confuse this with trailbraking which is used to counteract understeer when making a turn.
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Joined: Oct 2000
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From: Seattle, WA
I really shouldn't comment but I can't resist...
on street tires (stock S02's) the car is fairly tame, fairly easy to control, and smoothness IS a factor. If you're abrupt on your inputs or do something goofy right when VTEC kicks in, it's pretty easy to spin at high speeds even on street tires.
on race tires (a la Gary Thomason's car) it IS NOT EASY TO HANDLE and oversteers like there's no tomorrow. unless you drive competitively in Solo II (i.e. can beat the likes of Gary, Ron Bauer, Jason Keeney, Steve Suscy, etc.) you have no leg to stand on in the argument as to whether the car oversteers in a competitive autocross setting on race tires. PERIOD. Heck, when I went on stage to get my ProSolo year end trophy, Howard Duncan (Top SCCA guy for Solo II) said I was driving "the hardest car out there"...
Annie
Y2K S2K (2nd in ASL at Nationals behind Rita Wilsey, multiple time National Champ, and 5th overall in ProSolo for L1)
on street tires (stock S02's) the car is fairly tame, fairly easy to control, and smoothness IS a factor. If you're abrupt on your inputs or do something goofy right when VTEC kicks in, it's pretty easy to spin at high speeds even on street tires.
on race tires (a la Gary Thomason's car) it IS NOT EASY TO HANDLE and oversteers like there's no tomorrow. unless you drive competitively in Solo II (i.e. can beat the likes of Gary, Ron Bauer, Jason Keeney, Steve Suscy, etc.) you have no leg to stand on in the argument as to whether the car oversteers in a competitive autocross setting on race tires. PERIOD. Heck, when I went on stage to get my ProSolo year end trophy, Howard Duncan (Top SCCA guy for Solo II) said I was driving "the hardest car out there"...
Annie
Y2K S2K (2nd in ASL at Nationals behind Rita Wilsey, multiple time National Champ, and 5th overall in ProSolo for L1)
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From: On the lakefront...
I was talking about this very topic yesterday with the owner of Gingerman Raceway. He is buying an S2000 and asked me about the so-called 'tailhappiness' of it.
He said that he had heard that it was tailhappy and I asked him where he heard that. He said it was from a few Solo II guys! This car on a real race track, like Gingerman or what have you, simply is no more likely to oversteer than any other car with a 50/50 weight distribution and RWD.
Period.
Nick, my bud with the Skyline, the Mugen-modified Type R (featured in Car and Driver)and a couple of other cars drove my S2000 at the track a while back and he liked it so much, he bought one!
So I think the issue here is two-fold. One, and I may be going out on a limb here (hard to believe, I know), but I'm betting that the people who complain about tailhappiness of the S2000 are likely to have grown up or are more used to FWD cars.
And secondly, the courses which promote this 'tailhappiness' are tight autox courses, not open road courses...and these are the courses that Solo II drivers are running. I might also add that being on the throttle too quick or in too low of a gear going around a tight corner and VTEC engaging, sure...it's natural for the tail to want to step it. It's the nature and physics of RWD. Tight autox courses lend themselves to FWD, as well. This is one reason the ITR is such a performer there...
It's just going to be an endless debate between people who like road courses and people who like autox. It's not any more complicated than that.
And I'll say it once more. Oversteer is caused by the driver. And so is understeer. Too hot, too abrupt, too fast, too slow...all of these things are driver-controlled. Using them incorrectly will get results...and they may not be the results you are looking to generate...
My due lire
He said that he had heard that it was tailhappy and I asked him where he heard that. He said it was from a few Solo II guys! This car on a real race track, like Gingerman or what have you, simply is no more likely to oversteer than any other car with a 50/50 weight distribution and RWD.
Period.
Nick, my bud with the Skyline, the Mugen-modified Type R (featured in Car and Driver)and a couple of other cars drove my S2000 at the track a while back and he liked it so much, he bought one!
So I think the issue here is two-fold. One, and I may be going out on a limb here (hard to believe, I know), but I'm betting that the people who complain about tailhappiness of the S2000 are likely to have grown up or are more used to FWD cars.
And secondly, the courses which promote this 'tailhappiness' are tight autox courses, not open road courses...and these are the courses that Solo II drivers are running. I might also add that being on the throttle too quick or in too low of a gear going around a tight corner and VTEC engaging, sure...it's natural for the tail to want to step it. It's the nature and physics of RWD. Tight autox courses lend themselves to FWD, as well. This is one reason the ITR is such a performer there...
It's just going to be an endless debate between people who like road courses and people who like autox. It's not any more complicated than that.
And I'll say it once more. Oversteer is caused by the driver. And so is understeer. Too hot, too abrupt, too fast, too slow...all of these things are driver-controlled. Using them incorrectly will get results...and they may not be the results you are looking to generate...
My due lire
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From: Seattle, WA
it is an endless debate! I agree!
I haven't taken my car on a road race course, so I can't talk about that at all.
I guess it's just something to keep in mind - the car has the POTENTIAL to be an oversteering beast. The S2K is one of the hardest cars to control in an autocross environment. But it can be done.
I guess you have to think of it in relative terms - the S2K is tailhappy for autocross, but other RWD cars with power (Boxster S, C5 vette, Ferarri Modena, etc) are inherently MUCH less tailhappy. Therefore, it should be kept in the back of every S2K owner's mind that this car has the POTENTIAL of being much less controllable at any speed and on any tire combination than some other RWD cars. Tight fast stuff like autocross amplifies this trait, wider road course stuff apparently doesn't.
How's that for a fairly neutral answer on this topic (a first for me, I know...)
personally, my $0.02, the car's tailhappy. I spun the bugger on a public road on street tires. Yup, I'm the first to admit I was going a bit too fast, but heck, I've driven many other RWD cars through that exact spot and never had the tail step out like it does on this car.
Annie
Y2K S2K
I haven't taken my car on a road race course, so I can't talk about that at all.
I guess it's just something to keep in mind - the car has the POTENTIAL to be an oversteering beast. The S2K is one of the hardest cars to control in an autocross environment. But it can be done.
I guess you have to think of it in relative terms - the S2K is tailhappy for autocross, but other RWD cars with power (Boxster S, C5 vette, Ferarri Modena, etc) are inherently MUCH less tailhappy. Therefore, it should be kept in the back of every S2K owner's mind that this car has the POTENTIAL of being much less controllable at any speed and on any tire combination than some other RWD cars. Tight fast stuff like autocross amplifies this trait, wider road course stuff apparently doesn't.
How's that for a fairly neutral answer on this topic (a first for me, I know...)
personally, my $0.02, the car's tailhappy. I spun the bugger on a public road on street tires. Yup, I'm the first to admit I was going a bit too fast, but heck, I've driven many other RWD cars through that exact spot and never had the tail step out like it does on this car.
Annie
Y2K S2K