OK fine. I thought it was your opinion so I'm glad you've clarified that it is. We all know things, guess things, and infer things. It is helpful when others get to know which is which.

I guess the quest to understand this goes on...

 

Actually Jim, there is very little opinion involved. The Honda FSM tells us the trims are O2 sensor derived. It tells us the long term trim is derived from the short term trim. As far as I'm concerned, that makes that part of the answer a fact.

The aftermarket ECU experts tell us that long term trim applies at all times (open and closed loop). Since that jives with common sense, and these folks have credibility, I'm willing to consider that pretty factual too. The only thing more credible would be to have a Honda engineer come straight out and tell you (or send you a design spec :-).

The anecdotal stuff about the ECU tweaking mixture in open loop (according to dyno and wideband O2 readings) is less credible only because it hasn't been done on a large sample of cars in a scientific manner - but it supports the previous facts.

Finally, you might want to pick up some OBDII software for your laptop and monitor your own car's sensor outputs. You can monitor short term and long term fuel trim. Watch what happens when you go to WOT. Might be interesting.

UL

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ultimate lurker
[B]Actually Jim, there is very little opinion involved.

 

Let me get this straight -- you have to remove the bumper to change or clean the filter? Removing the bumper is not so easy that I'd call it a "cinch" -- it's roughly a half hour each way. So we're talking about a "simple" job taking about an hour, not to mention the risk of accidental damage every time you remove the bumper. If I put one of these CAIs in my car, I'll want to make some kind of access panel under the car to avoid having to remove the bumper to do a simple-ass job like changing or cleaning the filter. It disappoints me a great deal that AEM or Injen did not think of a solution to this problem.

 

Are you reading his posts at all?! This is not conjecture. The ECU DOES compensate in the short and long term based on O2 readings. It's in the service manual.

As far as whether or not the long term maps are applied to WOT operation, UL said Hondata and Zdyne found this to be a fact through their research on the matter. Where is he guessing in that? That sounds pretty damn well supported to me.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rick Hesel
[B]Let me get this straight -- you have to remove the bumper to change or clean the filter?

 

Well the important thing is, is that the CAI (either) effects won't be defeated by the ECU, right? End of story!

 

You don't have to remove the bumper. I installed the whoe thing without removing the bumper. All you need to do inorder to clean the filter is to remove the passenger side undertray.