I have enjoyed quite a few track days with the Honda Sports Car Clubs (in Australia).We have S2ks, ITRs and NSXes as members.

Assuming stock vehicles the ITR will lead slightly through the twisties - not enough to get away from you but you won't get past either. The S2k is quicker than an NSX in these situations too.

Coming out of 40mph corner onto a 0.6 mile (approx) straight the S2k will start to overtake the ITR at around 115mph as it progresses to about 130mph before braking into another 40mph corner. The NSX will overtake the S2k at around 105mph before reaching 135-140 prior to braking. This is the only point on the track where overtaking (assuming equally skilled drivers) will occur. Another point to note - on the days there were more spinoffs with the NSXes than the Stooks and more Stooks spinning off than ITRs.

Here in Australia the ITR costs around 60% of the price of an S2k whilst the Stook is around 40% of the price of an NSX.

The ITR is a great vehicle and excellent value for money. It is generally much easier (and safer) to drive than the Stook. The Stook has the edge (just) and the thrills if you know what you are doing. However, for me the key to spending the extra money was the fact that I was buying a convertible that was also fairly attractive looking - this was what justified the extra $$s.

 

I think ITRs are extremely capable because they're modded cars (modded GSR).

 

It must have been fun, though, being able to drive two incredible cars, eh?

 

I had a 4 door GSR at the time I bought the S2000... wow.. what a piece of shit *in comparision*, a fine car otherwise. The suspension swayed, it was way slow, the tires sucked, etc......

I am about 4 seconds a lap faster at Summit point with the S2000 than i was with the GSR.

I haven't taken the 'r' down yet.

 

I don't know why some guys still try to compare the two cars.

Yes they are close, depends on what close means to you.

In a 1/4 mile race, and s2k will beat a Type R by about 4-6 car lengths (13.8-14.2 compared to 14.4-14.8). The s2k has 45 more horses and tighter gearing and the agressive final drive to go with it. Contrary to what most people believe an ITR weighs almost the same as the s2k, in fact, my s2k weighs less by 15 pounds then my friends stock type R, and my s2k is stock as well. The s2k also has a flatter torque curve and more torque at 3000 RPM then the type R has at peak, multiply that by the aggressive gearing and you have much more drive force to the wheels.

When you hit the twists, it is hard for a FWD to compete with a RWD, let alone an excellent balanced RWD. Yes the Type R is the best FWD car in the world. Whethear you are looking at track racing or autoX, it will be hard to make a track where the type R can beat the s2k, if it is tight, the RWD advantage is huge, if it is less tight the power advantage is there. No matter how you look at it, there just isn't any way the cars can be compared.

The s2k is much harder to master and has higher limits, put in the right hands, there just isn't any comparison, having the advantage of pointing the back using the throttle is a huge advantage.

The only thing that keeps this argument going is people seeing s2ks in the hands of less skilled drivers, whether at the drags or the autoX/track.

Drags: The type R is much easier to launch and extract some decent times out of.

AutoX/Track: FWD is much easier to drive then RWD. Anytime you put these cars in the hands of less experienced people, the TYPE R will inspire more confidence and thus be pushed harder. This doesn't mean that the type R is faster, it is just easier to drive fast. It comes down to FWD vs. RWD, can anyone argue that FWD is better for racing????? Being able to control the power seperately from the steering is a huge advantage, sure it takes much more skill and much more work but if you are able to master it you will go far beyond the abilities of any FWD, even the best one in the world.

In summary, i have heard all sorts of arguments from Type R owners, it is time to put this to rest. The type R is a bargain for anyone looking for a FWD that is as close to a racecar as possible, it does many things very well and is a lot of fun to drive. However, the s2k does everything the R does and does them all better, whether you are looking at, structural rigidity, accelleration, braking, slalom, skidpad, transition, balance......

45 HP more, more torque and drive power and RWD are hard to beat no matter how you look at it.

It's time to put this to rest.





[Edited by Sev on 05-21-2001 at 08:08 PM]

 

I own a 2000 ITR, and I've been in stooks, and I do agree with most points, except one ... I am surprised that someone mentioned that the ITR has more body-roll and softer suspension than the stook. I definetly didn't get that impression ... how are other ITR owners with that?

 

Hey all-

I've owned a very modified Type R and currently own a similarly highly modded out S2000...

I think the Type R is an easier car to win with in it's own class.

I think the S2000 is more fun and more satisfying to drive and compete in.

Any monkey can get into the Type R and win with it against similar competition. It doesn't penalise poor driving. On the other hand, a good racecar driver with FWD experience will KILL their respective competition with it.

On the contrary, the S2000 is notorious for magnifying bad mistakes into DNFs. It is more like a motorcycle than car in this regard. It is definitely more scary to drive the S2000 at the limit than the Type R, which loves to be at or beyond the limit.

S2000 vs. Type R? No comparison. The S2000 is more driver oriented in the traditional sense. The Type R is more results oriented. My garage didn't have the room for two results oriented cars- hence the Type R is history...

Body roll? That's what aftermarket suspension tuning is for. No big deal.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by GTRPower
[B]On the contrary, the S2000 is notorious for magnifying bad mistakes into DNFs.

 

Hi 2kturkey-

More like that...

But more importantly-

Beyond the limit, the only thing that the Type R will hint at will be different tire wear and understeer... and when you're driving that hard, chances are the driver isn't paying much attention to the car anyway or isn't capable of doing that, or he/she wouldn't be beyond the limit...

To paraphrase myself, any knucklehead can get into a Type R and think they're fast- street racing meatheads are a primary example. But to actually be fast in that car is completely different...

 

Thanks GTR, I understand exactly what you mean. That ITR understeer is vey predictable and easy to manage.

I have to admit that personally I like driving the Stook like a fwd and carrying a lot of speed going into corners - I get heaps of understeer and scrub out the front tyres pretty badly too but I find it quite controllable if I have sufficient tyre pressure - it's also a great adrenaline rush!

After revising my track technique a little (not as much fun though) and braking harder before turning in I improved my lap times dramatically.

However, I'm not into tracking competitively and as long a I have that guy in front of me in my sights (staggered starts) that's all I really care about.