Just say NO to 0-60's
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,840
Likes: 0
From: Come see me after class.
Originally posted by willhave1soon
To those of you who have an S2000!!!! Does anyone else have to listen to their co-workers talking about how fast their VW's are. I just can't wait until I actually get an S2000. I just got promoted so it will be a few months. It's not that i hate VW's( i love the sound of turbo). It's just that they hate the S2000. I think it's b/c I would pose a great threat to their ego if I smoked their bitchasses.
To those of you who have an S2000!!!! Does anyone else have to listen to their co-workers talking about how fast their VW's are. I just can't wait until I actually get an S2000. I just got promoted so it will be a few months. It's not that i hate VW's( i love the sound of turbo). It's just that they hate the S2000. I think it's b/c I would pose a great threat to their ego if I smoked their bitchasses.
and russ, you have a zonda as your avatar, yet you don't like 0-60 benchmarks?
and here in houston, some freeways have traffic-control stoplights on the on-ramps. that's right: there's a traffic light on the on-ramp to the freeway. anyway, the norm is 70~75 mph so a car that has decent 0-60mph times would be of some benefit when entering the freeway.
it also helps when that annoying accord with the wing and stickers keeps buzzing his weedeater-esque exhaust at you in the adjacent lane...
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,956
Likes: 0
From: Land of the landeaus
Gotta have that Zonda not so much for it's 0-60 times, rather for it's looks which backs up its 0-200 mph times!
The whole instigator for my tirade began from reading a thread in another forum where some kid was challenging all other manufacturers to beat Dodge's work on the Neon SRT because for $20,000, it could run a 5.8 0-60 and that would embarass just about every automobile on the road.
I just shook my head thinking, "this kid just doesn't get it." This country's automobile mentality (or an uncomfortably large majority) are so fixated on straight line 0-60 times that it's completely overshadowed other facets of a car's performance personality. A good example is the Celica GT-S. Back when I owned the Spyder, I always knew I was reading thoughts from the unschooled when I read, "they out to put that Celica engine in the Spyder 'cause the Spyder only has 138hp."
Anyone who has owned the MR2-S would tell you by doing so without some SERIOUS massaging of how that engine applies power would be a match made in hell, to put that kind of "hold on, here comes the torque" in a mid-engined car. It's not NEARLY as solid throughout the rev range as the VVT-i and a damn poor match. So many youngsters (and yes, even skilled drivers) ended up putting their MR2's in the weeds (especially in the rain) because they simply were not used to how such cars handle (or worse, perhaps overstated the car's ability to their own) but regardless, putting in a stronger engine doesn't always mean the end result is going to be a better automobile. The 0-60 time might be quicker, but the car has certainly lost something in the process. That's all I'm saying.
These automobiles have to be, in my world at least, something greater than a number on a graph paper background.
The S2000 isn't designed to be a drag car but if owners like to do that sort of thing, so be it. It's not my cup of tea. I just felt like standing on a soapbox and shouting my opinions because frankly speaking, if I pulled over to the side of the road during one of my weekend jaunts through the winding roads of New England, I can damn sure guarantee I won't be seeing any of these buzz bombing 0-60 Ninja's passing by from which to exhange a conversation with.
To put it bluntly, I've had a summer of being revved on by every neon-underbodied nopi.com-rolling advertisement driven by a kid who thinks 0-60 times puts ya on Car and Driver's Top 10 list.
The whole instigator for my tirade began from reading a thread in another forum where some kid was challenging all other manufacturers to beat Dodge's work on the Neon SRT because for $20,000, it could run a 5.8 0-60 and that would embarass just about every automobile on the road.
I just shook my head thinking, "this kid just doesn't get it." This country's automobile mentality (or an uncomfortably large majority) are so fixated on straight line 0-60 times that it's completely overshadowed other facets of a car's performance personality. A good example is the Celica GT-S. Back when I owned the Spyder, I always knew I was reading thoughts from the unschooled when I read, "they out to put that Celica engine in the Spyder 'cause the Spyder only has 138hp."
Anyone who has owned the MR2-S would tell you by doing so without some SERIOUS massaging of how that engine applies power would be a match made in hell, to put that kind of "hold on, here comes the torque" in a mid-engined car. It's not NEARLY as solid throughout the rev range as the VVT-i and a damn poor match. So many youngsters (and yes, even skilled drivers) ended up putting their MR2's in the weeds (especially in the rain) because they simply were not used to how such cars handle (or worse, perhaps overstated the car's ability to their own) but regardless, putting in a stronger engine doesn't always mean the end result is going to be a better automobile. The 0-60 time might be quicker, but the car has certainly lost something in the process. That's all I'm saying.
These automobiles have to be, in my world at least, something greater than a number on a graph paper background.
The S2000 isn't designed to be a drag car but if owners like to do that sort of thing, so be it. It's not my cup of tea. I just felt like standing on a soapbox and shouting my opinions because frankly speaking, if I pulled over to the side of the road during one of my weekend jaunts through the winding roads of New England, I can damn sure guarantee I won't be seeing any of these buzz bombing 0-60 Ninja's passing by from which to exhange a conversation with.
To put it bluntly, I've had a summer of being revved on by every neon-underbodied nopi.com-rolling advertisement driven by a kid who thinks 0-60 times puts ya on Car and Driver's Top 10 list.
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,784
Likes: 1
From: The Beach
Interesting read....
0-60 is the most telling AND the most desired statistic for MOST people. PERIOD. Is it right, maybe, sure, no---who cares. I personally think there is NOTHING wrong with 0-60 it is a good indicator of acceleration and that is VERY important especially with merge lanes without an acceleration lane
On the same side of the coin mid-range power needs to be indicated b/c of passing on the highway. I really don't see why this is a problem and I am inclined to agree with the following post:
0-60 is the most telling AND the most desired statistic for MOST people. PERIOD. Is it right, maybe, sure, no---who cares. I personally think there is NOTHING wrong with 0-60 it is a good indicator of acceleration and that is VERY important especially with merge lanes without an acceleration lane
On the same side of the coin mid-range power needs to be indicated b/c of passing on the highway. I really don't see why this is a problem and I am inclined to agree with the following post:
For what it's worth, I'm quite sure that if the S2000 posted low 5-second 0-60 times CONSISTENTLY, this thread would never have been started.
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 42,315
Likes: 45
From: Central Massachusetts
Hi guys!
I don't know if you caught the brief article by Paul Frere on pg. 69 of November's Road and Track. I thought it spoke to a few points here, and you folks might enjoy it. The question of whether the current "power race" is a matter of prestige among manufacturers is very interesting... He's speaking about high end sedans here, not sports cars... but the ideas are relevant. Anyway, for me, dlq said it best: the appeal of our S is the whole package.
Since joining the board (and getting my S) this past spring, I've been astounded by what owners will do to get a good launch with their cars. I suppose the S can handle a clutch side-step at 6K RPM but, well, you guys are more man than I to explore that capability. I'm happy to utilize VTEC on highway ramps and gradual sweepers! I realize that for you racers, the emphasis on performance is a bigger component of the "whole package."
Anyway, it's a totally Amohric'n (drawl intentional) to talk 0-60 times. That's not going to ever go away, I think. It was either R&T or Car and Driver that tried once to remove that stat from their ratings (I think it was back in the day of 55 MPH speed limits in the US). They had to bring it back.
Best wishes, folks. This thread is an interesting read!
I don't know if you caught the brief article by Paul Frere on pg. 69 of November's Road and Track. I thought it spoke to a few points here, and you folks might enjoy it. The question of whether the current "power race" is a matter of prestige among manufacturers is very interesting... He's speaking about high end sedans here, not sports cars... but the ideas are relevant. Anyway, for me, dlq said it best: the appeal of our S is the whole package.
Since joining the board (and getting my S) this past spring, I've been astounded by what owners will do to get a good launch with their cars. I suppose the S can handle a clutch side-step at 6K RPM but, well, you guys are more man than I to explore that capability. I'm happy to utilize VTEC on highway ramps and gradual sweepers! I realize that for you racers, the emphasis on performance is a bigger component of the "whole package."
Anyway, it's a totally Amohric'n (drawl intentional) to talk 0-60 times. That's not going to ever go away, I think. It was either R&T or Car and Driver that tried once to remove that stat from their ratings (I think it was back in the day of 55 MPH speed limits in the US). They had to bring it back.
Best wishes, folks. This thread is an interesting read!
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,956
Likes: 0
From: Land of the landeaus
Most everyone presents valid points to the discussion (which is why I brought it up in the first place), but my opinion wasn't to make such a barometer of testing non related to legit racing. As JZR pointed out, a great 0-60 for Pro Solo's is a definite advantage. I don't expect this statistic to disappear anytime soon (unless one day, we're all running errands at warp speed) but I see sooooo many youngsters (whose driver's license laminates must still be warm to the touch) who think 0-60 is all that matters. I suppose in their world of stop light Turismo's, it does. This is why I don't expect to see too many S2000's being traded in on a Neon. But the level of hysteria over the fact that someone has managed to stuff lotsa horsepower into a shitbox amazes me. Weren't dads and grandfathers doing this crap years ago? I don't want a 5.8-second car if it means I'm going to be eating donuts once/week in the customer service lounge at my local Dodge dealership. That was my point. There is more to a satisfying automobile ownership experience than whipping off a mid 5-second 0-60 just prior to the courtesy van ride to work. Anyone recall Car and Driver's tuner shoot-out last year? I believe the only freakin' car that made it past day two was the Corvette, in stock form. All the other "ooh-wee, would you look at that engine" pretenders went boobs-up by the afternoon. So much for those 0-60 #'s.
Anyways, always appreciate dissenting opinions. It's what makes visiting here interesting.
Anyways, always appreciate dissenting opinions. It's what makes visiting here interesting.
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,830
Likes: 0
From: Johnson City
I'm going to take this one step further and say who cares about 1/4 mile times. It seems it's all I hear about anymore.
Fine if you want to be a 1/4 mile junkie I have no problem with it but I do not see the attraction. Be completely honest... it doesn't take a huge amount of skill.... yet people talk of it endlessly....
Just go drive the car.... in more than a straight line. It's not so much that 1/4 mile time are bad, just the people who talk endlessly of them (more people than care to admit) seem to be fixated on this one statistic.
Fine if you want to be a 1/4 mile junkie I have no problem with it but I do not see the attraction. Be completely honest... it doesn't take a huge amount of skill.... yet people talk of it endlessly....
Just go drive the car.... in more than a straight line. It's not so much that 1/4 mile time are bad, just the people who talk endlessly of them (more people than care to admit) seem to be fixated on this one statistic.