the problem is the loose nut behind the wheel.

 

If you have bald tires or summer-only tires in 40 degree or colder weather, it's easy to lose control and spin out. If you're at 7000RPMs with the pedal to the metal and you haven't spent the time to learn the car, it's easy to lose control and spin out.

But if you're driving sanely on the street with appropriate tires for the weather/conditions, you'll never have an issue. Or, if you get an 06+, the traction control guardian angel will save you. It's a nice safety feature.

The S2000 has much higher limits than other cars, but when you push them beyond the level of your skill, you get into trouble fast.

 

Burningtreez, S2000's reputation as being a snappy unpredictable handler is justified mainly due the chassis and steering not telegraphing their intentions as clearly as in some other sports cars and the rear end's propensity to let go quickly with out warning. 5 star engine, 5 star gearbox, 3 star chassis. Great car but you have been warned.

 

Because rotational inertia overcomes driver ability.

 

I give the chassis 5-stars as well. The suspension tuning of the '00-'03 (AP1) is a bit iffy, though, on two points in particular:

(1) too much rear roll stiffness relative to front roll stiffness (particularly on '00-'01 cars). This is virtually unheard of on a modern car. Roll stiffness is almost always biased to the front to ensure understeer at the limit.

They compensated for point (1) with:
(2) excessive rear toe change with suspension travel (outside rear toe-in with bump). This actually gives the car neutral balance mid-corner, once you get past initial oversteer.

IMO this setup is not even ideal for performance (and certainly not for inspiring confidence in the uninitiated). Overloading the outside rear (1) and toeing it in (2) just shreds the rear tires at the track, while the fronts aren't bearing their fair share of cornering loads.

How (1)+(2) = frequent spins:
(1) gives initial oversteer with ham-fisted steering inputs. The back end just WANTS to come around initially, so you must be subtle with inputs at the wheel! The IDEA of point (2) is that as the car rolls during cornering, the outside rear will toe-in to provide increased understeer/reduced oversteer. This gives neutral balance mid-corner. But this idea MISSES the fact that if the back end starts to lose grip and the driver LIFTS off the throttle (driver error that 90+% of drivers will commit because they do not know anything about how to drive at the limit), the outside rear toes relatively OUT, which INcreases oversteer! The car will SPIN, instantly.

The handling demeanor of the AP1 is thus a bit spooky to the uninitiated. There is an initial oversteer lurch, which is then "caught" by the outside rear toeing out as the car rolls. This ONLY works if the driver doesn't do the WRONG thing by LIFTING abruptly off the throttle. If you feel the oversteer lurch and give the big lift, you're DONE.

The AP1 almost seems designed to cause the uninitiated (again, 90+% of the driving population) to spin!

In the '04+ cars (AP2), they further corrected the roll stiffness bias "problem" and fixed the rear-toe-change-with-bump problem.

But even the AP2 is designed for people who know how to drive. Americans by and large don't, and are used to cars that have suspension tuning designed to save their sorry arses when they screw up.

To the extent that when people spin their S2k's, most responses blame too much aggression with the throttle, when it is almost certain to have been due to abruptly lifting OFF the throttle at the critical instant.

 

 

I really cant believe how often this topic comes up and it almost makes me laugh when people are "afraid" to buy the car because of worry of crashing. Its a CAR...just drive in nicely as you learn it. Take highly tuned semi-powerful car and hammer the gas in the middle of a turn and you will run into trouble. Yes the car is more snappy than some, but the fear that some people have is really a little ridiculous.

 

Zden, thanks for the informative post.

Original Poster, feel free to ignore all the macho "you're not a good driver if you spin out" crap.

I have no problems with the car during normal driving. The car encourages you to drive fast around corners as it sticks very well. AP2 with VSA will correct you even if you run out of talent taking a corner, no worries. I would definitely go for an 06-09 model year (they come with VSA).

The car is pretty stable in straight line at speed; nothing should happen.

 

[QUOTE=burningtreez,Mar 26 2009, 05:14 PM]Is that the same thing as oversteer?

 

in two years of ownership, i've managed to spin the car only once, and it was driver error. coming out of turn going 40 mph in 2nd gear i released the trottle completely, the car decelerated and the backend came loose on some dirt on the road, needless to say, i learned my lesson, never release trottle entering, mid, or exiting a turn, i haven't spun the car since.