Dude, how do you ever expect to learn to drift the car in a nice opposite lock power slide with your foot on the clutch?

This is what you need to do...

Go into the corner at at least 30 mph over the posted speed limit, hit the brakes, downshift at least 2 gears and TAKE YOUR FOOT OFF THE CLUTCH as you are steering into the corner. As the revs come up in the engine, it will naturally slow the car down. If you are close enough to the limit of traction, this will start the desired drift. Now, it is very important to pay close attention at this point since the rear of the car is now attempting to swap places with the front. As it does so, you need to steer INTO the slide and aim the front of the car at the apex of the turn. At this point, you need to STOMP THE HELL OUT OF THE GAS PEDAL while you steer INTO the drift and the car should straighten itself as you accelerate out of the turn. I think this technique will produce the desired effect. Practice makes perfect... Smoothness is key...

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by GChambers
[B]Dude, how do you ever expect to learn to drift the car in a nice opposite lock power slide with your foot on the clutch?

 

OK, here is my tips on cornering modestly quick (no power oversteer, no drifts) - you can either do 5-4-3-2 heel-toe downshifts or a 5-2 double clutch depending on your personal preference. I'd suggest the 5-4-3-2 so you can get lots of practice heel-toeing.

Now here's where my biking proclivities show - get your braking and downshifting done in a straight line and transition to trailing throttle at the start of the turn, gradually accelerating (or constant throttle) at the beginning of the turn. Braking thru the turn or downshifting upsets the chassis (Now I know some of you will say brake/downshift into the first half of the turn, but I prefer a smoother, less agressive style). The chassis will balance better (weight transfer) if the powertrain is laying down the power (notice how the car will transition to oversteer if you get off the gas).

You don't really want to drive around in neutral or with the clutch depressed - you do not have control over the "go" aspect of the car. It is OK to drift in neutral comming to a straight stop.

 

5-4-3-2 is fine on the engine and clutch as long as you rev match before engaging. This car was born for swapping gears.

 

There is another thread going on right now that deals with "engine braking or rotor braking". That thread has gotten quite emotional and has served to divide our members due to a similarity of topic. This thread is beginning to go that way. Anytime a topic like this comes up, everyone feels that their way is the only way to do things and get all bent and twisted when others don't agree. Don't get all wound up about it. There is merit in all methods and the author of this thread should realize that. If he really wants to know the best and most correct way to negotiate this situation, he should consider going to a respectable driving school, NOT a racing school, to learn it. Techniques learned for track driving may not necessarily be applicable for the street. Some people make the mistake of thinking that once they have completed a "track driving course", these are the ONLY techniques that are correct and all others are wrong. The street is not a race track and other techniques can be more appropriate.
Don't let this this thing turn us against each other.

 

There are a few reasons to go down through the gears sequentially. One is so that no matter what, you're never without a way to accelerate. This is especially important on the street since you never know when you may need to maneuver to avoid something. Another is so you don't over-rev the engine. What happens if you come into a corner hot, do your normal 5 - 2 downshift but are too fast for 2nd gear? This is one excellent way to make a piston sized imprint in your hood. If you had been stepping down sequentially you'd know that without having to look at the speedo - not something you want to be doing at turn-in. It's also hugely easier to be smooth when you step down through the box. These are all things that get amplified hugely in the bike world, but the idea is the same. Additionally, all that time you're slowing to 2nd gear speeds in 5th gear, either the clutch is in, or the engine is at very low rpm, neither of which is particularly good.

Regardless, you should be able to downshift while braking. If you don't know how to heal and toe, learn. Shift the damned transmission, that's what it's there for.

 

Kind of "OT":
Just curious to several of the posters who have stated that it is "bad" to have the clutch "in".

I traditionally loved to downshift and understand/believe in the need to always be ready to power out of a situation. That having been said, I've also been doing a lot more braking than downshifting with my stook due to some of the clutch nightmares I've read about and experienced once (high rev start with barely any actual car movement).

So, please clarify. Merely having the clutch fully depressed to the floor isn't a "Bad Thing™" in terms of "riding the clutch" (IE, clutch WEAR), is it? I thought when the pedal is fully to the floor that I could do that all day without ever "HURTING" or wearing down/burning the clutch prematurely as it would be TOTALLY disengaged.

Is this correct? IOW, am I wearing down the clutch or "riding the clutch" when it's depressed fully to the floor?

 

Having the clutch in shouldn't cause any wear and tear. Leaving it in all day though would cause a leg cramp at least!

 

When the pedal is depressed right to the floor it is totally disengaged as you rightly say. No wear can occur in this situation as the plates are pressed apart and not touching. It's when you release the clutch and the plates are pressed together, tranferring the engine power to your gearbox and tranny that the problems begin, depending on your technique, as I'm sure you are aware.

In my reference to driving with the clutch in, I wasn't referring to any possible damage to your clutch anyway, I was simply pointing out that travelling along with the clutch depressed, in gear or in neutral as some posters have said they do, is a very bad habit, from a safe driving point of view. You should always be in the correct gear when driving, for the speed you are travelling at. Put simply, that means a gear suitable to the speed you are travelling at, and which will enable you to accelerate or otherwise negotiate any hazard which may occur.

The only time the clutch should be depressed is for the very brief instant between gear changes. The only other instance I can think of is sitting stationary at lights for example, in gear but with the clutch depressed ready to drive off. We probably all do that from time to time, but again it's not good a practice. The textbook answer in that situation is you should be in neutral with the handbrake applied.

Well you asked!

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ejis
There are a few reasons to go down through the gears sequentially. One is so that no matter what, ]you're never without a way to accelerate . This is especially important on the street since you never know when you may need to maneuver to avoid something. Another is so you don't over-rev the engine. What happens if you come into a corner hot, do your normal 5 - 2 downshift but are too fast for 2nd gear? This is one excellent way to make a piston sized imprint in your hood. If you had been stepping down sequentially you'd know that without having to look at the speedo - not something you want to be doing at turn-in. It's also hugely easier to be smooth when you step down through the box. These are all things that get amplified hugely in the bike world, but the idea is the same. Additionally, all that time you're slowing to 2nd gear speeds in 5th gear, either the clutch is in, or the engine is at very low rpm, neither of which is particularly good.

Regardless, you should be able to downshift while braking. If you don't know how to heal and toe, learn. Shift the damned transmission, that's what it's there for. [/QUOTE

Exactly right. You always need to be in gear. It's a good idea to learn do it right early. I would never, never have the clutch in for an extended period of time. Not b/c of hurting the clutch, engine, whatever, but because it's not safe to not have power. This could also lead to bad habits like eventually lifting throttle during a turn or clutching right in the middle of a turn... You want to have your foot on the gas during a turn, maintaining speed (in this case) or accelerating (if you're more experienced - racing or tracking - increasing your speed through the turn).

Try this: go around a turn pretty fast, once with the clutch in (shudder!) and once with your foot maintain speed on the gas pedal. Which feels safer, more stable, and more controllable? You might try this in a parking look, just in case. IMO you can notice it at low speeds, and body roll feels reduced when you're on the gas...