HopkintonMA:

Yeah, still trying to get word of the '02 features -- and hoping for iVTEC and a glass rear window. This car mathematically beats the others so bad that it's a no-brainer...However, the safety issues and cheap interior have me a little hesitant. I keep hoping all will be fixed in '02 :-)

Smccurry:

Yes, I agree that this car meets my driver needs better than all the rest.

Hecash:

Fairly difficult to test the hell out of the car before I buy it. Do you think they are going to let me put a few hundred miles on it to test it out? Don't think so...

Rocketman:

Yes, the price of the S2k is lower to significantly lower than the others...Good point. Unlike Car and Driver, I class vehicles based on their functionality and my requirements, instead of price -- this penalizes manufacturers from building good bang for the buck designs -- like the S2k. I am continually shocked to see the lack of this car in comparo's, especially after it won the '99 C&D.

Yes, the SC in on my mind. However, with this feature, I'm just more likely to get killed. We'll see...

Mister_two:

Well, if one can reach both sets of controls, why have both sets?

FlyingPig:

Well, this is a $35k vehicle with a hardtop and I expect more...

CoralDoc:

So how do you like your S2k? Happy with the decision? Any issues/problems?

Dslts02:

Forgot to mention that I actually have driven an MZ3. Not in the last couple of months though. It certainly seemed faster, but still didn't insire confidence as well as the S2k.

Nin009:

Good point about the blind spot size. Hopefully the hardtop will minimize that.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to fault the car the way I have. For $35k, I demand a certain level of quality in a car. Certainly, the mechanical aspect of the vehicle is my first priority, but no one wants to drive something that feels cheap.

pfb:

Yes, you're probably right. I need to factor safety into that equation as well though.


Thanks for all the responses! Keep them coming!

Regards, Mark

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mdavis
[B]
Well, if one can reach both sets of controls, why have both sets?

 

The redundant radio controls issue does not make sense to me. This is far from a new feature on cars. Most cars, at least the ones I look at, have this feature. It is a matter of convenience and safety. I can easily change stations or adjust the volume without having to take my eyes off the road. The buttons would be too close on the radio to accurately hit them without looking. Besides, just like a TV, the basic controls are found on the units themselves. You have a remote with your TV and I bet your TV also has redundant controls on it. Complaints here should be squarely focused on the incredibly bad speakers and low-end head unit. The speakers they put in are the lowest quality Honda had the audacity to foist on the buying public. No excuses.

One area you did not mention is the boot cover. This is also very poorly made. I use it all the time and I cannot see the snaps coming close to lasting the life of my ownership.

I've had the car for 1.5 years and have had no problems (knock on wood). For me it was the best car purchase I could possibly have made. I have absolutely not regrets.

 

mister_two:

Good point about the radio door, but by adding such door, they have created the need for the extra controls. I agree that they could be beneficial though. Point well taken.

ScottB:

Yes, the boot cover should be added to the cheap list...



So, I have this pretty serious Excel spreadsheet. Is there a way for me to get this uploaded here or do I need to put it on the web somewhere and reference it?? I currently have 42 weighted categories -- and the M3 is making a comeback. M3 and S2K are both clearly on top. This is a working document, but I suspect it would be very interesting to discuss...


Regards, Mark

 

Like someone mentioned, you should buy the s2k and with the money saved, you can upgrade the cheap interior and so on....

As for your spreadsheet, best things is:

Press ALT-Printscreen on your keyboard and paste the image into something like Photo editor, then save it as a JPG. After that you would need upload it to your host and to link it here. If you don't have a host, you can email it to someone, like me, and they will host and link it for you.

 

Let me stress the fact that this is an incompete, work in progress.
I'm sure, absolutely positive, that there are likely inconsistencies here. Pls. point them out and I'll update the spreadsheet.

Also note the M3 is now #1, but only because of the "Likely to get Mark killed" factor <-- this is a direct result of the greatness of the S2000. Without this category, even with a significant safety hit, the S2k still wins...

I should also note -- there are tons of "popups" in the actual spreadsheet with justification for many of the numeric values...Sorry, but you need the .xls for that.


See below for the most recent version of the spreadsheet...

-Mark

 

Wow, that's a great post...with detailed information!

I test drove the BMW Z3 3.0 before I bought my S2K. I found that the seating position (for me) was terrible. My comment to the salesperson was that I almost felt as though I was sitting at a complete verticle. (He suggested I recline the seat. I couldn't, as it was already reclined as much as it could go.) I'm only 6'.5", so I was a bit surprised.

The one thing I didn't see in your list was the total cost of ownership. How long will it cost to maintain each vehicle. I think BMW covers routine maintenance for a period of time. If you plan to keep the vehicle past this, I would strongly recommend looking at repair records, etc. for both BMW and Honda. My friend's experience with his 540 was that it was pretty expensive to maintain, as everything seemed to be a bit high in price...and needed in greater frequency.

I don't regret my S2K purchase one bit, especially since I had such a bad reaction with the seating position on the Z3.

 

Umm, one more note about the radio controls. You may not notice but they are an exact symmetrical image for the A/C controls on the other side of the wheel. This is a plus or minus depending on your sense of style but it impressed me when I saw it. And I agree on keeping the radio door closed 99.9% of the time and that the alternate controls are useful.

 

BondS2000:

I do have maintenance cost and repair cost (of which, the S2k does quite well). . .I guess I could include "scheduled maintenance" as well.

Penforhire:

Yeah, very good UI design to have this symetry.


Keep the comments coming...


Regards, Mark

 

Mark,
As an ARE (anal-retentive engineer), I am in awe of your thorough rating system in particular, and your Excel prowess in general. However, as others have noted, I think you've answered your own question several times over by now. So dammit, what are you waiting for --

Make the move!
Take the leap!
Pull the trigger!
Sh*t or get off the pot!
Strike while the iron's hot!
He who hesitates is lost!
'Tis a far far better thing!
I shall return!
Yea, tho I walk thru the vall--

..Er, sorry. Anyway, in other words - buy the dang car already! You won't regret it for a second. You'll look like this permanently:

Cheers!!
John