New S2000, AP2 with AP1 chip?
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New S2000, AP2 with AP1 chip?
Hey, so this is the first thread I've started on this site. I am coming over from preludepower and bimmerforums, and a bunch of other sites. I always go by the name dominican.
Anyway, so I've been wanting to own an S2000 for years, but the NY winters always dissuaded me from owning one, since I would Daily drive it. Recently, however, I moved to South Florida, and now more than ever I have the urge to go out and get me a convertible, and the S2000 is it.
My dream configuration would be one in Laguna Blue, with the AP1 engine and cluster, and AP2 bumpers, tail lights, and upgraded suspension bits. I do not want DBW, but I do want the glass rear window. I know in the US Laguna blue was only offered in 06 and 07, and those years only came with the F22C and the DBW with stability control.
With that said, I have been looking at AP1s in Championship white or in New Formula red. I like the red interiors on the white ones, though black interior is ok. Suzuka blue would have been fine too if it didn't have that terrible looking interior color.
And now for my questions. I've been reading a bit on how some people use the AP1 ECU with their AP2s. Some say that an 00 ecu would allow for a modest increase in power and a a higher redline. Some people have reported running their engines like this for an extended period of time, redlining it and all, with no problems to report. This sounds very appealing to me, because I would love to have a newer car, and from what I've been seeing 2005 models are fetching the same money as 2003 models, so newer for the same price, except for the problem of the lower redline. Many of you would say that this is isn't a problem at all, and I would tend to agree that for performance, it really shouldn't be an issue. However, it's a problem for me. The car was designed with 9k rpms in mind, and to own an S2000 and not have the 9k RPM redline, well that would be cause for buyers remorse down the line, I wouldn't be satisfied with "only" pulling up to 8.2K RPMS knowing that I could have gotten the whole 9. I also hear that this setup of using an AP1 ecu on an AP2 isn't too difficult to do, so I can have the extra .2 liters, and the high RPMS.
I wouldn't be even thinking about this if Laguna blue was offered on AP1s, or if AP1s weren't selling for the same money as AP2s, just saying.
So, opinions? questions? should I gtfo and buy a Miata for saying this stuff?
Anyway, so I've been wanting to own an S2000 for years, but the NY winters always dissuaded me from owning one, since I would Daily drive it. Recently, however, I moved to South Florida, and now more than ever I have the urge to go out and get me a convertible, and the S2000 is it.
My dream configuration would be one in Laguna Blue, with the AP1 engine and cluster, and AP2 bumpers, tail lights, and upgraded suspension bits. I do not want DBW, but I do want the glass rear window. I know in the US Laguna blue was only offered in 06 and 07, and those years only came with the F22C and the DBW with stability control.
With that said, I have been looking at AP1s in Championship white or in New Formula red. I like the red interiors on the white ones, though black interior is ok. Suzuka blue would have been fine too if it didn't have that terrible looking interior color.
And now for my questions. I've been reading a bit on how some people use the AP1 ECU with their AP2s. Some say that an 00 ecu would allow for a modest increase in power and a a higher redline. Some people have reported running their engines like this for an extended period of time, redlining it and all, with no problems to report. This sounds very appealing to me, because I would love to have a newer car, and from what I've been seeing 2005 models are fetching the same money as 2003 models, so newer for the same price, except for the problem of the lower redline. Many of you would say that this is isn't a problem at all, and I would tend to agree that for performance, it really shouldn't be an issue. However, it's a problem for me. The car was designed with 9k rpms in mind, and to own an S2000 and not have the 9k RPM redline, well that would be cause for buyers remorse down the line, I wouldn't be satisfied with "only" pulling up to 8.2K RPMS knowing that I could have gotten the whole 9. I also hear that this setup of using an AP1 ecu on an AP2 isn't too difficult to do, so I can have the extra .2 liters, and the high RPMS.
I wouldn't be even thinking about this if Laguna blue was offered on AP1s, or if AP1s weren't selling for the same money as AP2s, just saying.
So, opinions? questions? should I gtfo and buy a Miata for saying this stuff?
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,113
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From: San Francisco
Hey, so this is the first thread I've started on this site. I am coming over from preludepower and bimmerforums, and a bunch of other sites. I always go by the name dominican.
Anyway, so I've been wanting to own an S2000 for years, but the NY winters always dissuaded me from owning one, since I would Daily drive it. Recently, however, I moved to South Florida, and now more than ever I have the urge to go out and get me a convertible, and the S2000 is it.
My dream configuration would be one in Laguna Blue, with the AP1 engine and cluster, and AP2 bumpers, tail lights, and upgraded suspension bits. I do not want DBW, but I do want the glass rear window. I know in the US Laguna blue was only offered in 06 and 07, and those years only came with the F22C and the DBW with stability control.
With that said, I have been looking at AP1s in Championship white or in New Formula red. I like the red interiors on the white ones, though black interior is ok. Suzuka blue would have been fine too if it didn't have that terrible looking interior color.
And now for my questions. I've been reading a bit on how some people use the AP1 ECU with their AP2s. Some say that an 00 ecu would allow for a modest increase in power and a a higher redline. Some people have reported running their engines like this for an extended period of time, redlining it and all, with no problems to report. This sounds very appealing to me, because I would love to have a newer car, and from what I've been seeing 2005 models are fetching the same money as 2003 models, so newer for the same price, except for the problem of the lower redline. Many of you would say that this is isn't a problem at all, and I would tend to agree that for performance, it really shouldn't be an issue. However, it's a problem for me. The car was designed with 9k rpms in mind, and to own an S2000 and not have the 9k RPM redline, well that would be cause for buyers remorse down the line, I wouldn't be satisfied with "only" pulling up to 8.2K RPMS knowing that I could have gotten the whole 9. I also hear that this setup of using an AP1 ecu on an AP2 isn't too difficult to do, so I can have the extra .2 liters, and the high RPMS.
I wouldn't be even thinking about this if Laguna blue was offered on AP1s, or if AP1s weren't selling for the same money as AP2s, just saying.
So, opinions? questions? should I gtfo and buy a Miata for saying this stuff?
Anyway, so I've been wanting to own an S2000 for years, but the NY winters always dissuaded me from owning one, since I would Daily drive it. Recently, however, I moved to South Florida, and now more than ever I have the urge to go out and get me a convertible, and the S2000 is it.
My dream configuration would be one in Laguna Blue, with the AP1 engine and cluster, and AP2 bumpers, tail lights, and upgraded suspension bits. I do not want DBW, but I do want the glass rear window. I know in the US Laguna blue was only offered in 06 and 07, and those years only came with the F22C and the DBW with stability control.
With that said, I have been looking at AP1s in Championship white or in New Formula red. I like the red interiors on the white ones, though black interior is ok. Suzuka blue would have been fine too if it didn't have that terrible looking interior color.
And now for my questions. I've been reading a bit on how some people use the AP1 ECU with their AP2s. Some say that an 00 ecu would allow for a modest increase in power and a a higher redline. Some people have reported running their engines like this for an extended period of time, redlining it and all, with no problems to report. This sounds very appealing to me, because I would love to have a newer car, and from what I've been seeing 2005 models are fetching the same money as 2003 models, so newer for the same price, except for the problem of the lower redline. Many of you would say that this is isn't a problem at all, and I would tend to agree that for performance, it really shouldn't be an issue. However, it's a problem for me. The car was designed with 9k rpms in mind, and to own an S2000 and not have the 9k RPM redline, well that would be cause for buyers remorse down the line, I wouldn't be satisfied with "only" pulling up to 8.2K RPMS knowing that I could have gotten the whole 9. I also hear that this setup of using an AP1 ecu on an AP2 isn't too difficult to do, so I can have the extra .2 liters, and the high RPMS.
I wouldn't be even thinking about this if Laguna blue was offered on AP1s, or if AP1s weren't selling for the same money as AP2s, just saying.
So, opinions? questions? should I gtfo and buy a Miata for saying this stuff?
(1) Either get a 2006 with DBW (it's really not an issue, plus you'll have VSA for rainy days) and flashpro and you can raise the redline to 8600 RPM (someone correct me if I'm wrong).
As far as I know, you cannot hit 9,000 RPM on an F22C (ap2) engine. Due the increased displacement, it would be the equivalent of 10-11k RPM on an AP1?
(2) Or get an AP1 and call it a day. You can swap out the front and rear bumpers and the tail/headlights to AP2 style as well as the wheels. I honestly prefer the AP1 engine and the AP1 styling (with front and rear spoilers)... I'd take AP2v1 wheels, however. And that, for me, is the perfect s2000 with a classic look.
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From: Atlanta, GA
Most AP2s (05 and newer) have a programmable ECU, which means you can tune in however you like. Swapping it out makes no sense. AP1 ECUs have to be swapped out with stand-alone units since they cannot be reprogrammed. 8k vs 9k matters effectively nill. The additional power and torque of the F22c makes it the better motor. It's also quicker around town. That said, when zinging around a race track at redline, they are equally as fast.
That said, you can't rev an F22C to 9k rpms regardless of what ECU programming you use. If you try you will at best cause valve damage, and at worst destroy the motor. The issue here is mechanical, not electrical. And you can raise the redline to 8600 or so. The only problem is you have practically ZERO safety margin at that speed. Starting at 8700, very bad things happen to the motor. With an 8k rpm redline and a stock fuel cutoff (8300?), you at least have some protection for your motor when (not if) you miss a shift.
My advice would be to just buy a stock AP2 and be happy. If you can't afford it, a later model AP1 will also make a fine choice.
That said, you can't rev an F22C to 9k rpms regardless of what ECU programming you use. If you try you will at best cause valve damage, and at worst destroy the motor. The issue here is mechanical, not electrical. And you can raise the redline to 8600 or so. The only problem is you have practically ZERO safety margin at that speed. Starting at 8700, very bad things happen to the motor. With an 8k rpm redline and a stock fuel cutoff (8300?), you at least have some protection for your motor when (not if) you miss a shift.
My advice would be to just buy a stock AP2 and be happy. If you can't afford it, a later model AP1 will also make a fine choice.
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Originally Posted by dominican' timestamp='1302289434' post='20445238
Hey, so this is the first thread I've started on this site. I am coming over from preludepower and bimmerforums, and a bunch of other sites. I always go by the name dominican.
Anyway, so I've been wanting to own an S2000 for years, but the NY winters always dissuaded me from owning one, since I would Daily drive it. Recently, however, I moved to South Florida, and now more than ever I have the urge to go out and get me a convertible, and the S2000 is it.
My dream configuration would be one in Laguna Blue, with the AP1 engine and cluster, and AP2 bumpers, tail lights, and upgraded suspension bits. I do not want DBW, but I do want the glass rear window. I know in the US Laguna blue was only offered in 06 and 07, and those years only came with the F22C and the DBW with stability control.
With that said, I have been looking at AP1s in Championship white or in New Formula red. I like the red interiors on the white ones, though black interior is ok. Suzuka blue would have been fine too if it didn't have that terrible looking interior color.
And now for my questions. I've been reading a bit on how some people use the AP1 ECU with their AP2s. Some say that an 00 ecu would allow for a modest increase in power and a a higher redline. Some people have reported running their engines like this for an extended period of time, redlining it and all, with no problems to report. This sounds very appealing to me, because I would love to have a newer car, and from what I've been seeing 2005 models are fetching the same money as 2003 models, so newer for the same price, except for the problem of the lower redline. Many of you would say that this is isn't a problem at all, and I would tend to agree that for performance, it really shouldn't be an issue. However, it's a problem for me. The car was designed with 9k rpms in mind, and to own an S2000 and not have the 9k RPM redline, well that would be cause for buyers remorse down the line, I wouldn't be satisfied with "only" pulling up to 8.2K RPMS knowing that I could have gotten the whole 9. I also hear that this setup of using an AP1 ecu on an AP2 isn't too difficult to do, so I can have the extra .2 liters, and the high RPMS.
I wouldn't be even thinking about this if Laguna blue was offered on AP1s, or if AP1s weren't selling for the same money as AP2s, just saying.
So, opinions? questions? should I gtfo and buy a Miata for saying this stuff?
Anyway, so I've been wanting to own an S2000 for years, but the NY winters always dissuaded me from owning one, since I would Daily drive it. Recently, however, I moved to South Florida, and now more than ever I have the urge to go out and get me a convertible, and the S2000 is it.
My dream configuration would be one in Laguna Blue, with the AP1 engine and cluster, and AP2 bumpers, tail lights, and upgraded suspension bits. I do not want DBW, but I do want the glass rear window. I know in the US Laguna blue was only offered in 06 and 07, and those years only came with the F22C and the DBW with stability control.
With that said, I have been looking at AP1s in Championship white or in New Formula red. I like the red interiors on the white ones, though black interior is ok. Suzuka blue would have been fine too if it didn't have that terrible looking interior color.
And now for my questions. I've been reading a bit on how some people use the AP1 ECU with their AP2s. Some say that an 00 ecu would allow for a modest increase in power and a a higher redline. Some people have reported running their engines like this for an extended period of time, redlining it and all, with no problems to report. This sounds very appealing to me, because I would love to have a newer car, and from what I've been seeing 2005 models are fetching the same money as 2003 models, so newer for the same price, except for the problem of the lower redline. Many of you would say that this is isn't a problem at all, and I would tend to agree that for performance, it really shouldn't be an issue. However, it's a problem for me. The car was designed with 9k rpms in mind, and to own an S2000 and not have the 9k RPM redline, well that would be cause for buyers remorse down the line, I wouldn't be satisfied with "only" pulling up to 8.2K RPMS knowing that I could have gotten the whole 9. I also hear that this setup of using an AP1 ecu on an AP2 isn't too difficult to do, so I can have the extra .2 liters, and the high RPMS.
I wouldn't be even thinking about this if Laguna blue was offered on AP1s, or if AP1s weren't selling for the same money as AP2s, just saying.
So, opinions? questions? should I gtfo and buy a Miata for saying this stuff?
(1) Either get a 2006 with DBW (it's really not an issue, plus you'll have VSA for rainy days) and flashpro and you can raise the redline to 8600 RPM (someone correct me if I'm wrong).
As far as I know, you cannot hit 9,000 RPM on an F22C (ap2) engine. Due the increased displacement, it would be the equivalent of 10-11k RPM on an AP1?
(2) Or get an AP1 and call it a day. You can swap out the front and rear bumpers and the tail/headlights to AP2 style as well as the wheels. I honestly prefer the AP1 engine and the AP1 styling (with front and rear spoilers)... I'd take AP2v1 wheels, however. And that, for me, is the perfect s2000 with a classic look.
I didn't know about the raising the redline to 8600 on these cars. That makes everything simpler, much simpler. I can live with that. Since I really want laguna blue, I'll search for that and call it a day.
thanks for the info!
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From: Liberal Kansas
I agree with them above, if you want the 9k redline get an ap1, or an 06+ DBW and you can easily get flashpro and safely rev to 8500. All 00-05 ECU's are not compatible with Flashpro and cannot be "chipped". If you really want a Laguna, get it and have fun with it. Ap2's have a slight bit more torque and better gearing than ap1's so that is pretty nice. I ended up getting a Suzuka ap1 for the more raw sports car feel, and did all the ap2 conversions (bumpers, headlights, taillights, ap2v1 wheels, OEM ap2 wing, ect) and love it! 9k redline with the ap2 body styling is the best of both worlds. Even though I probably could have bought an ap2 with all I have spent on mine doing ap2 conversions, i'm happy with it. Also the Suzukas interior isn't to bad in person, and is easy to swap parts too. I 2-toned mine and have OEM black carpet, door inserts, Classio black/black suede seat covers, black ap2 dash controls, and other little bit in mine and it made it look 1000x better.
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From: Liberal Kansas
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: Pawtucket, RI
Most AP2s (05 and newer) have a programmable ECU, which means you can tune in however you like. Swapping it out makes no sense. AP1 ECUs have to be swapped out with stand-alone units since they cannot be reprogrammed. 8k vs 9k matters effectively nill. The additional power and torque of the F22c makes it the better motor. It's also quicker around town. That said, when zinging around a race track at redline, they are equally as fast.
That said, you can't rev an F22C to 9k rpms regardless of what ECU programming you use. If you try you will at best cause valve damage,
I think the issue is peak piston acceleration. At ~8600rpm, peak piston acceleration for an F22 is about the same as for an F20 at 9000. I think they went lower than that because of instances of AP1 engine damage on mechanical overrev. I.e., they lowered the redline more than they needed to to have the same margin.
and at worst destroy the motor.
For me, an F22C with 8600rpm redline would be ideal in terms of maximizing performance without impacting reliability/engine life.
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Originally Posted by dominican' timestamp='1302291074' post='20445346
I didn't know about the raising the redline to 8600 on these cars. That makes everything simpler, much simpler. I can live with that. Since I really want laguna blue, I'll search for that and call it a day.
thanks for the info!
https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/856...0-dealscombos/
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Will keep the next gear you shift too in the power band. Once tuned can make power to 8600 too. Even if a slight drop in power it will be significantly more than the next gear at 6k rpm's..