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Nightmare of a day

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Old Dec 16, 2016 | 02:20 PM
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Default Nightmare of a day

Long story short.
Im sitting at a stop light, the second car back, when out of no where I'm launched forward. Speed limit is 45; and there were no screeches so I assume the guy wasn't even looking up and creamed me. Turns out that guy is a friend, a really good friend actually. But not anymore, I can't be friends with 1. Someone that ruined my s2000. And 2. That doesn't look when he's driving.
So I call USAA, my insurance(coincidentally he uses the same). Everything is sorted and appointments made.
We leave. My car ends up breaking down a little ways up the road so i call USAA and get a tow. I had another friend drive me home.
I get a call saying the tow guy is there so I leave to meet him. When I get there he has my s2000's front wheels in the thing(tow bar?), so I tell him it's a RWD; we need to flip it and I brought some rope to tie the steering wheel straight. After a BUNCH of back and forth; my fuse is near its end, he keeps refusing to do what I asked. Swearing up and down that since it's a manual; so long as it's out of gear it's fine.

This is my first time having my RWD vehicle towed; but I've always been told to tow RWD from a flatbed(which I guess they were "unwilling" to send because the car was "driveable") or to raise the rear and unlock and tie down the steering wheel.

Now my my question is what should I do?
Should I call USAA, put in a complaint and make sure whatever damage this man causes is covered by him and/or his company?
Should I call his company and file a complaint and see what they want to do about it?
Should I do the above and also call a lawyer?
Or should I just do nothing and let things play itself out?
or am I completely wrong and none of this matters?

i really appreciate the help. I'll see if I can add pictures of the aftermath.
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Old Dec 16, 2016 | 02:28 PM
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https://m.imgur.com/CncpK9X?r
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Old Dec 16, 2016 | 02:28 PM
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Old Dec 16, 2016 | 02:32 PM
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Old Dec 16, 2016 | 03:13 PM
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You are correct. The S2000 must be towed on a flatbed, pretty sure this is even in our owner's manual... I'm not sure how likely there is to be damage done, hopefully it wasn't towed too far. Sorry about the accident looks like you have some quarter panel damage too
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Old Dec 16, 2016 | 03:23 PM
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It was only towed like a mile. I knew I was right. God damn it. Now what am I going to do. Yeah the quarter panels are BARELY even damaged. That's what irritated me most. The left one has a 1 inch line creased dent. Right side has a dent the size of a quarter. And that's it.

Im really really really hoping the insurance company doesn't total it. If it gets totaled I might go beat up my friend and deal with the consequences. But he is gna get an asswhooping worth an s2k. Like imma beat the brakes off him.
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Old Dec 16, 2016 | 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Chong
Long story short.
Im sitting at a stop light, the second car back, when out of no where I'm launched forward. Speed limit is 45; and there were no screeches so I assume the guy wasn't even looking up and creamed me. Turns out that guy is a friend, a really good friend actually. But not anymore, I can't be friends with 1. Someone that ruined my s2000. And 2. That doesn't look when he's driving.
So I call USAA, my insurance(coincidentally he uses the same). Everything is sorted and appointments made.
We leave. My car ends up breaking down a little ways up the road so i call USAA and get a tow. I had another friend drive me home.
I get a call saying the tow guy is there so I leave to meet him. When I get there he has my s2000's front wheels in the thing(tow bar?), so I tell him it's a RWD; we need to flip it and I brought some rope to tie the steering wheel straight. After a BUNCH of back and forth; my fuse is near its end, he keeps refusing to do what I asked. Swearing up and down that since it's a manual; so long as it's out of gear it's fine.

This is my first time having my RWD vehicle towed; but I've always been told to tow RWD from a flatbed(which I guess they were "unwilling" to send because the car was "driveable") or to raise the rear and unlock and tie down the steering wheel.

Now my my question is what should I do?
Should I call USAA, put in a complaint and make sure whatever damage this man causes is covered by him and/or his company?
Should I call his company and file a complaint and see what they want to do about it?
Should I do the above and also call a lawyer?
Or should I just do nothing and let things play itself out?
or am I completely wrong and none of this matters?

i really appreciate the help. I'll see if I can add pictures of the aftermath.
First, I'll say that sucks. Getting your nice car wrecked by someone else always sucks.

I'm not gonna give you any personal advice, I'll keep it mechanical and legal.

First, legal... I didn't see any mention of this in your story... Tell me the police were called and they determined fault and wrote a report or issued a ticket. If so, then it's a solid guarantee that this whole thing will be covered by your buddy's policy, it will go on his record not yours, and you have significantly more rights and power when it comes to deciding what happens to your car. If not, and he flips on his story later... The result depends on a lot of things.

Next, towing...

The short version: What they did is fine.

Towing a 2-wheel drive, manual transmission vehicle with its drive wheels on the ground is fine. It's just like coasting in neutral. Auto trans or AWD is another story but your S is neither.

Let me describe the motion if this helps any... The axles will turn, the driveshaft will turn. In your S2000 transmission, the secondary shaft, the countershaft, and the oil pump will all turn. The input shaft will be stationary. The transmission won't care. Oil will circulate. When you're sitting at a traffic light in neutral, the opposite is true: Input turning, couter + secondary + oil pump stopped. The differential will work normally when tracking and turning.

Unless your rear alignment, suspension, or drivetrain are already badly damaged, no further damage will occur. If one of those is damaged already, and gets further damaged, well... It was going to end up in the repair quote anyway. It's no different than you driving away afterwards.

Towing it with the front (steering) wheels on the ground is a different story. You don't tie the wheel with a rope, and if you do, it won't help anything. It makes some people feel comfortable, but whatever. your rope job only needs a few inches of play in it for the car to start to fishtail. Sitting backwards with the front (steering) wheels on the ground will reverse your (fairly significant) caster angle. The car will want to steer itself off-straight. Rope will not stop it. I've seen the results when they start fishtailing behind the truck. It's ugly. The steering lock will do a better job, but then the car will dog-track behind the truck anyway because the wheels will not be perfectly straight... That and tow truck drivers don't trust the flimsy steering locks, and all the dolly manuals tell you to leave the wheel unlocked.. I've seen professionals do it using ratchet straps that are cranked-the-f*ck-down... Personally I'd rather not have tow truck drivers doing any roughshod jerry-rigging on the things in my interior...

That all said, if it would make you more comfortable in the future, when you call you can just tell them "The steering wheel was shaking like a leaf and the rear end sounded like a coffee grinder full of gravel, it's gonna need a flatbed..."

Hope everything works out.

*I will note, the factory service manual says the only "safe" way to tow it is a flat-bed, but only because it's not designed to be lifted or towed from the bumper-mounted tow hook. There are many car manuals that state this, and don't mention towing dollies (The "tow bar or thing" that your front wheels were in) at all... The manual also says you can't tow anything with the S but plenty of people use tire trailers... I'm sure the manual would tell you never to use the control arms to tie the car down to a dyno, but again...

Last edited by Spartarus; Dec 16, 2016 at 03:58 PM.
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Old Dec 16, 2016 | 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Spartarus
First, I'll say that sucks. Getting your nice car wrecked by someone else always sucks.

I'm not gonna give you any personal advice, I'll keep it mechanical and legal.

First, legal... I didn't see any mention of this in your story... Tell me the police were called and they determined fault and wrote a report or issued a ticket. If so, then it's a solid guarantee that this whole thing will be covered by your buddy's policy, it will go on his record not yours, and you have significantly more rights and power when it comes to deciding what happens to your car. If not, and he flips on his story later... The result depends on a lot of things.

Next, towing...

The short version: What they did is fine.

Towing a 2-wheel drive, manual transmission vehicle with its drive wheels on the ground is fine. It's just like coasting in neutral. Auto trans or AWD is another story but your S is neither.

Let me describe the motion if this helps any... The axles will turn, the driveshaft will turn. In your S2000 transmission, the secondary shaft, the countershaft, and the oil pump will all turn. The input shaft will be stationary. The transmission won't care. Oil will circulate. When you're sitting at a traffic light in neutral, the opposite is true: Input turning, couter + secondary + oil pump stopped. The differential will work normally when tracking and turning.

Unless your rear alignment, suspension, or drivetrain are already badly damaged, no further damage will occur. If one of those is damaged already, and gets further damaged, well... It was going to end up in the repair quote anyway. It's no different than you driving away afterwards.

Towing it with the front (steering) wheels on the ground is a different story. You don't tie the wheel with a rope, and if you do, it won't help anything. It makes some people feel comfortable, but whatever. your rope job only needs a few inches of play in it for the car to start to fishtail. Sitting backwards with the front (steering) wheels on the ground will reverse your (fairly significant) caster angle. The car will want to steer itself off-straight. Rope will not stop it. I've seen the results when they start fishtailing behind the truck. It's ugly. The steering lock will do a better job, but then the car will dog-track behind the truck anyway because the wheels will not be perfectly straight... That and tow truck drivers don't trust the flimsy steering locks, and all the dolly manuals tell you to leave the wheel unlocked.. I've seen professionals do it using ratchet straps that are cranked-the-f*ck-down... Personally I'd rather not have tow truck drivers doing any roughshod jerry-rigging on the things in my interior...

That all said, if it would make you more comfortable in the future, when you call you can just tell them "The steering wheel was shaking like a leaf and the rear end sounded like a coffee grinder full of gravel, it's gonna need a flatbed..."

Hope everything works out.

*I will note, the factory service manual says the only "safe" way to tow it is a flat-bed, but only because it's not designed to be lifted or towed from the bumper-mounted tow hook. There are many car manuals that state this, and don't mention towing dollies (The "tow bar or thing" that your front wheels were in) at all... The manual also says you can't tow anything with the S but plenty of people use tire trailers... I'm sure the manual would tell you never to use the control arms to tie the car down to a dyno, but again...

thank you for clarifying. I was told exactly that; the transmission would mess up because the diff would be spinning and the trans wouldn't be and all that
I'm not sure if you've worked with USAA. But since we both have it,when I called, my adjuster said no worries go use his and his adjuster said the same. Because our stories matched up exactly and he told them it was all his fault that he wasn't paying attention. So when I spoke to his adjuster to line up a rental and appointment; he said he's doing everything off his insurance and if I were to have any questions when I call to use the other guys information; policy number and stuff; not mine. That my name or insurance isn't even going to be apart of it. I did end up calling the police anyways; explained to them exactly what I just said and they said they weren't going to send anyone. So idk. Pretty much I was just worried about what damage the towing may cause because I was worried insurance wouldn't cover it; but I think it'll be lost in all the damage anyways. I guesss now I'll just pray that it isn't deemed totaled. Or I'm completely screwed.
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Old Dec 16, 2016 | 05:54 PM
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I think the adrenaline is wearing off. idk if it's related but I'm starting to get a headache and shit. My shoulder is starting to hurt too. But I think that might be an old baseball injury and the really cold weather. Ugh. Maybe I should go get checked out just in case. Last time they found my ribs had separated from my spine and I just thought it was my normal back pain. I originally went in because a link in my neck.
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Old Dec 16, 2016 | 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Chong
It was only towed like a mile. I knew I was right. God damn it. Now what am I going to do. Yeah the quarter panels are BARELY even damaged. That's what irritated me most. The left one has a 1 inch line creased dent. Right side has a dent the size of a quarter. And that's it.

Im really really really hoping the insurance company doesn't total it. If it gets totaled I might go beat up my friend and deal with the consequences. But he is gna get an asswhooping worth an s2k. Like imma beat the brakes off him.
that's a shit day. mother fker.

​​​​​​​darcy

Last edited by darcyw; Dec 16, 2016 at 06:05 PM.
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