Mr Bomber,

The braking on the turn and the subsequent weight transfer to the front of the car and to the left, combined with the steering input to the right, resulting in unloading the rear end and reduction in traction is what caused the spin.

If I had VSA it would have applied the brakes to the left front and rear wheels, thus increasing the yaw rate to the left, the opposite of the yaw induced by my input.

It most likely would have prevented my spin. Especially since I was going approximately only 30 mph.

Page 19-19 in the 2000-20009 Service Manual explains this. And there is a great book, Going Faster, by Carl Lopez and Danny Sullivan, which explains vehicle dynamics very well. It is the handbook, if you will, of the Skip Barber Racing School.

 

It doesn't matter how hard you hit the brakes. VSA takes over. In fact, that's when it more likely to take over. Take a read of page 19-19 and 19-20 in the 2000-2009 Service Manual. It explains it well.

 

[QUOTE=elvir,Feb 12 2011, 05:56 PM] black ice doesn't care about your racing history or how well you can control your car in a spin.

 

I stand corrected. I was not aware that the system could reduce the brake force you applied. I was under the impression that it could only "add" braking force.

TO the black Ice comment, I agree with the guy above me that youa re putting too much faith in the system.

THe Instinct comment was a good one (and a big reason why I am not against it) I am lucky enough to be one of the people that is pretty good (not perfect) at committing knowledge to muscle memory, it is a skill that I picked up in both driver training for the ambulance squad I used to drive for, my firefighting days, and a little bit of natural ability. THat said, even that requires practice and I will be the first to admit that I have gotten into a few situations (not just in the S) where I know I would have spun if not for the autox practice, Like ive said before, I am all for it existing, but do not view it as a necessity for myself, I would not sell my AP1 to buy and AP2 JUST for VSA.

 

I woudn't either....cause I love that 9000rpm redline. And that's good for autocross as well!

 

[QUOTE=LowFlyin',Feb 12 2011, 10:21 AM]
Why do I have to turn it off?

 

 

Nope. VSA is not a bolt-on item. It is very integrated and vehicle specific. VSA monitors every wheel independently and is able to brake each wheel independently, in addition to power control.

No aftermarket VSA like system I know has this capability, and therefore are inferior IMHO. They have other features though, like adjustability, etc.

I'd be happy to be proven wrong. But please include proof of independent monitoring and braking control of each wheel, in addition to power control. Like I said, I don't know off any after market system that can do this.

 

I am glad my car didn't come with vsa, and I have never had a close call.

I've never spun the rear around in front of me except for once intentionally in an empty ski resort parking lot in august to see what it feels like "beyond the point of control," or my control at least.

The traction control on a mustang gt i drove for a year almost caused me to get into an accident. That lazy solid rear axle was predictable and easy to slide where you wanted it upon tires breaking loose without traction control. One time the road was wet and i started to fishtail just a bit through a sharp left turn at a very slow speed when the traction control kicked in. I started to make an instinctual mild counter steer with a slight blip of the throttle to point it back where i wanted it like usual but the throttle started cutting out and made me completely lift off the gas in a "WHAT THE F???" moment of frustration, and I think we all know what usually happens next. Luckily managed to feather back on the throttle in the split second i realized it was the damned traction control confusing me, just in time to keep from spinning around and ending up backwards on the center island.

Thank god for traction control, not.

 

I'm a little confused regarding your story. You say you are glad you don't have a car that came with VSA, but then you told a story about traction control. They are more or less, completely different things....