so i finally experienced the much debated S2K oversteer in a real world situation.

i have to say that all the talk was, in retrospect, overblown. the car is easy to catch, the oversteer is consistent and predictable and the car isn't unstable or twitchy under these conditions.

being gentle and controlled in your correction and throttle modulation is all that's required.

it's NOT snap oversteer a la the '80s 911s, and it's not some sort of "design flaw".

my appreciation for the car has risen another notch.

-c

[Edited by malachi on 02-05-2001 at 10:35 PM]

 

erm, one 'side step' does not tell how the car behaves. Not every time the car steps out will it behave the same. You have to get the tail out under lots of different conditions and speeds/attidutes (and lots of times) before you can categorize whether the car is 'snappy' or 'progressive'. Good to hear that the 1st slide was progressive though.

My old MR2 was progressive for the whole 5 years I had it. It would slide and never snap ... that is expect for 4 (or 5) times when it bit me hard when I least expected it. Once I had in on a track and was doing 160km/h or so (100 miles). I've been going around for 4 hours and all of a sudden the thing snaps and puts me into a wild spin - must have gone around at least 8 - 10 times before the car stopped. The car snapped. It snapped maybe 5 times in the whole time of my ownership of the MR2, but it still 'snapped'. The fact that I had the car sideways and progressive another 100 times does not change the fact that you needed to be carefull and watch out for that 'one in a 100 snap'. Snappy cars don;t snap 'every time' ... they can be progressive a lot of the times too. Just like the old 911s.

btw, I'n not saying that the S2000 is 'progressive' or 'snappy' but that don't draw conclusions so eazily. I had the tail out on 'throttle of' oversteer a couple of times in the S2000 and the car felt very controllable. Though, what the car will do in a different corner and under different conditions/attitude is still a mistery - and that's how you should treat it or esle it just might bite you. This kind of knowledge only comes from lots and lots of driving experience in the car - not one of incident.

 

oh, i totally understand. i have (at this point) a fair amount of experience with getting sideways in the car (under various circumstances and conditions). this was the first "real world" experience.

and i should have clarified what i meant by "real world". in this case i meant "unplanned" (as opposed to testing in a deliberative and iterative manner - on a skidpad or large expanse of pavement or empty road - under more or less controlled circumstances).

my experiences under controlled circumstances have all been positive - but i hesitated to say anything until i had this sort of "real world" experience - gives me a better perspective to speak from.

also, i *totally* agree that there is always the odd exception, the "one in a hundred" (as you put it) snap that should be in *all* our minds when we push the limit in this car.

-c

[Edited by malachi on 02-05-2001 at 11:17 PM]

 

I would describe it as a sidestep for most situations. For me the typical situation is a fairly hard corner. When I unload the outside wheel as I straigthen out, it will cause the car to sidestep back the otherside. Its actually starting to get annoying. Any one experience this? Any tips on preventing this, as it must not be the optimal way 'cause I'm not getting the power down while its doing the 'ol 1-2. But its totally controllable - even for an amatuer like myself. As for the power oversteer, I haven't experience that yet.

 

What was the situation for the oversteer? Were road conditions bad?

 

The road conditions were fine. Its the one going up on Claremont Ave.

But yesterday I was by US1, near Bodega Bay, and I went in a sweeper a bit fast. It started understeering (which I've never experienced before), and it went sideways quite a bit on the exit of the corner. But very controllable if not a bit annoying.

 

Speedster, that sounds like 'lift off oversteer'. Sounds like you went in too hot and then lifted (or eazed) of the thottle in order to slow the car down. Which is a natural instinct when you go in too hot. This transfers the weight from the back to the front, gets more grip at the front but less at the back and when at the limit will get the back out on a car with good weight distribution (ie. S2000).

In order to avoid it:
- Do not lift of, or don't lift of as much. That way you keep the weight at the back and keep the back planted.
- Try and hold the line ie. do not tighten it - this will to asking for oversteer as well.
- If you do have to lift of (which sometimes happens) then try and eaze the line (eaze the wheel lock around the corner). If you have to hit the brakes (which sometimes happens), try and eazy the line even more (ie. aim the car straight, or as much as possible) while braking. This might see you heading for the outside of the road but when you need to turn in more - eaze of the brake, give it even throttle and then turn the car (it should be going slower already).
- Best advice though is to not come in too hot innto the corner ... much better/safer being 'hot' out of it than into it.

malachi, np ... I must have missunderstood - I thought that was the 1st time you had the back out.

 

lift-off oversteer is a common problem, especially if you haven't had a lot of experience in rear wheel drive cars. davidM's advice is excellent, especially the part about not getting off the throttle (nerves...). be very careful, however, if lift-off oversteer occurs on a *downhill* turn. this can dramatically alter car response as it can exagerate weight transfer.

slicks2k - don't know if the question was for me, but the road was dry, road surface was uneven but not broken, corner was a tiny bit off camber seeming and consistent radius. went in hot and was a little too "firm" on the throttle before the apex.

-c

[Edited by malachi on 02-06-2001 at 10:22 AM]