Pre-Purchase Questions: Run Costs, 2000 AP1 Issues, and PPIs
03-03-2015, 05:20 PM
#1
Pre-Purchase Questions: Run Costs, 2000 AP1 Issues, and PPIs
Hey guys. First post here. I’ve been considering picking up an S2000 for a few years now and might finally pull the trigger soon. I have a few random questions if y’all don’t mind. I tried to search but didn’t turn up exactly what I was looking for.
Background info: I’m looking at an AP1 with between 30 and 65k miles. It’d be a fair weather dd and run 3-4 track days per year. I’ll put 5-6k miles on per year tops.
1. Roughly, what are you paying annually (maintenance and repairs only) to drive your cars? I know it’s a Honda, but Edmunds recorded annual maintenance
between 700 and 1900 and annual repairs between 300 and 600 since new. Those numbers shocked me. What are you paying?
2. Are early AP1s (year 2000 specifically) less desirable when trying to sell? There seems to be more 2000s for sale, and I just want to make sure I won’t have difficulty selling down the road.
3. Any reason not to go with a year 2000? From what I gather, it’d be nice if the top was upgraded to glass and clutch buzz can be an issue, but there’s not much else inherently wrong with them.
4. I know that some have had issues replacing retainers when they buy a used S, which has presumably been over revved. Has anyone checked this during a PPI?
5. Are Honda dealers decent places for PPIs? I’d be buying from a warm state, so I would have no personal experience with the dealer.
Background info: I’m looking at an AP1 with between 30 and 65k miles. It’d be a fair weather dd and run 3-4 track days per year. I’ll put 5-6k miles on per year tops.
1. Roughly, what are you paying annually (maintenance and repairs only) to drive your cars? I know it’s a Honda, but Edmunds recorded annual maintenance
between 700 and 1900 and annual repairs between 300 and 600 since new. Those numbers shocked me. What are you paying?
2. Are early AP1s (year 2000 specifically) less desirable when trying to sell? There seems to be more 2000s for sale, and I just want to make sure I won’t have difficulty selling down the road.
3. Any reason not to go with a year 2000? From what I gather, it’d be nice if the top was upgraded to glass and clutch buzz can be an issue, but there’s not much else inherently wrong with them.
4. I know that some have had issues replacing retainers when they buy a used S, which has presumably been over revved. Has anyone checked this during a PPI?
5. Are Honda dealers decent places for PPIs? I’d be buying from a warm state, so I would have no personal experience with the dealer.
03-03-2015, 06:08 PM
#2
Hey guys. First post here. I’ve been considering picking up an S2000 for a few years now and might finally pull the trigger soon. I have a few random questions if y’all don’t mind. I tried to search but didn’t turn up exactly what I was looking for.
Background info: I’m looking at an AP1 with between 30 and 65k miles. It’d be a fair weather dd and run 3-4 track days per year. I’ll put 5-6k miles on per year tops.
1. Roughly, what are you paying annually (maintenance and repairs only) to drive your cars? I know it’s a Honda, but Edmunds recorded annual maintenance
between 700 and 1900 and annual repairs between 300 and 600 since new. Those numbers shocked me. What are you paying?
My ANS. Insurance, maintenance etc- this isn't an accord or a civic- its a sports car that you'll pay a premium to own- unless you're super handy and can do good mechanical work yourself. Sounds about right for maintenance- I do my own work so I save there- check out the cost of consumables. Good oil and pcx-004 filter- trans fluid, brake fluid, Diff fluid. Repairs if things are broken will cost you- so don't break stuff. how about the fuel costs- thought about that? You know shop rate is about $100/hr. You doin' the work yourself? spec valve adjustment will cost you nothing or $200. How about preventatively seam welding the front upper A-arms when you're running sticky track tires. Spec alignment will cost you $200 alone.
2. I want an AP1 for the revs and more raw experience. Are early AP1s (year 2000 specifically) less desirable when trying to sell? There seems to be more 2000s for sale, and I just want to make sure I won’t have difficulty selling down the road.
My ANS. Don't whore it out, maintain the car to the maximum, don't go hellaflush, don't cut up what you can't repair, and your car will have a certain value when you go to sell it.
3. Any reason not to go with a year 2000? From what I gather, it’d be nice if the top was upgraded to glass and clutch buzz can be an issue, but there’s not much else inherently wrong with them.
My ANS. Specifically for '00 to mid year '02, if you're tracking it, change the oil squirter banjo bolts to the updated design. Otherwise, any year s2000 is a good choice. Maybe someone has already updated the top, but if you're going to track it, certain tracks need you to have a rated roll cage, or hard top.
4. I know that some have had issues replacing retainers when they buy a used S, which has presumably been over revved. Can this easily be checked during a PPI?
My ANS. Got money? The valve cover can be opened up and the retainers inspected before you buy...but does the person doing it know what they're doing or know what to look for.
5. Are Honda dealers decent places for PPIs? I’d be buying from a warm state, so I would have no personal experience with the dealer.
My ANS. If i was looking, I'd ask an s2ki member nearby if they know the owner/car/local trusted s2000 mechanic.
Background info: I’m looking at an AP1 with between 30 and 65k miles. It’d be a fair weather dd and run 3-4 track days per year. I’ll put 5-6k miles on per year tops.
1. Roughly, what are you paying annually (maintenance and repairs only) to drive your cars? I know it’s a Honda, but Edmunds recorded annual maintenance
between 700 and 1900 and annual repairs between 300 and 600 since new. Those numbers shocked me. What are you paying?
My ANS. Insurance, maintenance etc- this isn't an accord or a civic- its a sports car that you'll pay a premium to own- unless you're super handy and can do good mechanical work yourself. Sounds about right for maintenance- I do my own work so I save there- check out the cost of consumables. Good oil and pcx-004 filter- trans fluid, brake fluid, Diff fluid. Repairs if things are broken will cost you- so don't break stuff. how about the fuel costs- thought about that? You know shop rate is about $100/hr. You doin' the work yourself? spec valve adjustment will cost you nothing or $200. How about preventatively seam welding the front upper A-arms when you're running sticky track tires. Spec alignment will cost you $200 alone.
2. I want an AP1 for the revs and more raw experience. Are early AP1s (year 2000 specifically) less desirable when trying to sell? There seems to be more 2000s for sale, and I just want to make sure I won’t have difficulty selling down the road.
My ANS. Don't whore it out, maintain the car to the maximum, don't go hellaflush, don't cut up what you can't repair, and your car will have a certain value when you go to sell it.
3. Any reason not to go with a year 2000? From what I gather, it’d be nice if the top was upgraded to glass and clutch buzz can be an issue, but there’s not much else inherently wrong with them.
My ANS. Specifically for '00 to mid year '02, if you're tracking it, change the oil squirter banjo bolts to the updated design. Otherwise, any year s2000 is a good choice. Maybe someone has already updated the top, but if you're going to track it, certain tracks need you to have a rated roll cage, or hard top.
4. I know that some have had issues replacing retainers when they buy a used S, which has presumably been over revved. Can this easily be checked during a PPI?
My ANS. Got money? The valve cover can be opened up and the retainers inspected before you buy...but does the person doing it know what they're doing or know what to look for.
5. Are Honda dealers decent places for PPIs? I’d be buying from a warm state, so I would have no personal experience with the dealer.
My ANS. If i was looking, I'd ask an s2ki member nearby if they know the owner/car/local trusted s2000 mechanic.
good luck
darcy
03-04-2015, 03:08 AM
#3
Oil Banjo bolts, somewhere in 2002 they have been upgraded, valve retainers are also weak (intake side) with AP1 models. So much info on these forums. Search it up. You will literally have hundreds of hours of research available.
03-04-2015, 03:19 AM
#4
I spent hours, if not days, researching these cars on this forum. 
Honda upgraded these cars every year they were in production. From that standpoint the MY2000 cars are the least desirable especially as far as handling. I wanted nothing earlier than 2006 as that's the year stability control was fitted and drive-by-wire which allows computer engine tuning.
I have no idea where or how Edmunds could get maintenance cost data. And it's not a consideration for me. Data here reflects little maintenance other than scheduled maintenance.
-- Chuck
Honda upgraded these cars every year they were in production. From that standpoint the MY2000 cars are the least desirable especially as far as handling. I wanted nothing earlier than 2006 as that's the year stability control was fitted and drive-by-wire which allows computer engine tuning.
I have no idea where or how Edmunds could get maintenance cost data. And it's not a consideration for me. Data here reflects little maintenance other than scheduled maintenance.
-- Chuck
03-04-2015, 04:44 AM
#5
Originally Posted by Chuck S
I spent hours, if not days, researching these cars on this forum.
Honda upgraded these cars every year they were in production. From that standpoint the MY2000 cars are the least desirable especially as far as handling. I wanted nothing earlier than 2006 as that's the year stability control was fitted and drive-by-wire which allows computer engine tuning.
I have no idea where or how Edmunds could get maintenance cost data. And it's not a consideration for me. Data here reflects little maintenance other than scheduled maintenance.
-- Chuck
Honda upgraded these cars every year they were in production. From that standpoint the MY2000 cars are the least desirable especially as far as handling. I wanted nothing earlier than 2006 as that's the year stability control was fitted and drive-by-wire which allows computer engine tuning.
I have no idea where or how Edmunds could get maintenance cost data. And it's not a consideration for me. Data here reflects little maintenance other than scheduled maintenance.
-- Chuck
I kind of wonder who has spent more time as a lurker/new member here. You, or me... Lol
03-06-2015, 10:10 AM
#6
I spent hours, if not days, researching these cars on this forum.
Honda upgraded these cars every year they were in production. From that standpoint the MY2000 cars are the least desirable especially as far as handling. I wanted nothing earlier than 2006 as that's the year stability control was fitted and drive-by-wire which allows computer engine tuning.
I have no idea where or how Edmunds could get maintenance cost data. And it's not a consideration for me. Data here reflects little maintenance other than scheduled maintenance.
-- Chuck
Honda upgraded these cars every year they were in production. From that standpoint the MY2000 cars are the least desirable especially as far as handling. I wanted nothing earlier than 2006 as that's the year stability control was fitted and drive-by-wire which allows computer engine tuning.
I have no idea where or how Edmunds could get maintenance cost data. And it's not a consideration for me. Data here reflects little maintenance other than scheduled maintenance.
-- Chuck
03-06-2015, 02:24 PM
#7
The only AP1 I drove back to back with my AP2 was faster.
"A bit more exciting" for sure -- if you keep the car out of the cattails!
Some over-steer is desirable, perhaps, on certain race tracks. But it seems the wrecks posted here are primarily the results of spin-outs. Guys with high skill levels won't have as many problems. I'm taking a course at Mid-Ohio later this spring to learn how far I can push my '06 in this controlled environment. I can turn VSC off as needed but it's good to know it's there.
Track times don't necessarily transfer to "back roads times." On the track you see the same corner over and over and over and can develop a line and timing. Back roads are random and this is where handling (and perhaps stability control) helps.
-- Chuck
"A bit more exciting" for sure -- if you keep the car out of the cattails!
Some over-steer is desirable, perhaps, on certain race tracks. But it seems the wrecks posted here are primarily the results of spin-outs. Guys with high skill levels won't have as many problems. I'm taking a course at Mid-Ohio later this spring to learn how far I can push my '06 in this controlled environment. I can turn VSC off as needed but it's good to know it's there.Track times don't necessarily transfer to "back roads times." On the track you see the same corner over and over and over and can develop a line and timing. Back roads are random and this is where handling (and perhaps stability control) helps.
-- Chuck
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03-06-2015, 11:00 PM
#8
AP1 are known to consume a lot of oil. Some guys were saying they consume a quart every 1,000 miles. If you use it as a daily driver, it can be expensive. If I were to do it all over again, I'd buy an AP2 for less maintenance issues.
03-07-2015, 10:53 AM
#9
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Originally Posted by shogunmma
AP1 are known to consume a lot of oil. Some guys were saying they consume a quart every 1,000 miles. If you use it as a daily driver, it can be expensive. If I were to do it all over again, I'd buy an AP2 for less maintenance issues.
03-07-2015, 10:56 AM
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And, to answer your other question, it costs me about 500/year to maintain mine (do my own valve adjustments, fluid changes, etc). Biggest chunk of that is rear tires; I get 2-3 spring/summers out of one set of fronts, and I drive my S pretty hard on mountain roads here almost every nice day we have. Cost is, like Darcy said ^, a huge variable..