Reflections on a day at Gingerman (long, like War and Peace long)
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From: On the lakefront...
Reflections on a day at Gingerman (long, like War and Peace long)
Long, but enjoy... 
I was at Gingerman for a Test and Tune day with the Supra boys this past Thursday. They asked me to be an "instructor" (cough cough) as I know the course very well and have spent many days and miles on it. About 12-14 TT Supras were there, 3 S2000's including mine, a couple of M3's, a couple Scoobys; an Eclipse here and there...all in all about 28 cars were there. Clark (member here) and I were running approximately the same times, 1:41's or thereabouts. The best Supra time was that, as well. This can be attributed to many things. One, and I think this is the biggest reason, is inexperience of track time where there are actual turns. Some of these cars were pushing close to 700 horsepower...amazing machines some of them were. They would carry 20+ more mph through the longest straight than the S2000. Wicked fast those cars are! At Road America these cars would smoke the S2000 like a cheap cigar, at a more technical and twisty course like G'man, we have an advantage. But as I said, it really comes down to the driver. Nick in his Skyline can do low 1:30's there all day and that car is set up much like some of the built Supras are.
This has more to do with driver (in)experience than anything, too, but I recall one of the M3's pulling low 1:50's. We had over 10 seconds on him. It only confirmed my opinion that you are not racing a car as much as you are racing the driver. You are not racing the car's limits, you are racing the limits of the person driving it. That is an important distinction that I have learned spending time at various race tracks.
Well, it's a big car and I think braking also plays a part in the reason why we were beating them. Many Supra's were going off the course, but no damage resulted. I kept it on the track all day and everything for me felt absolutely 100% right...I love days like that when everything comes together, mentally and physically and you are at the top of your game. For me, it was an excellent day. This was the first day that I had the car out there since putting the Mugen seat and spoiler on. It was also the first day that I had the MG Racing rotors there, as well. I felt so connected to the car and it felt so planted and stable. I attributed this to the seat and the feedback that I was getting from the car. It just felt so solid and that was never communicated before through the stock seat. What a tremendous feeling that was...
I sat back after the day was over and thought about my sessions and realized that I really didn't have any of the squirliness in the rear that I had before and, as I said, I thought it was just the communication/feedback that I was now getting with the seat. Well, then, stupid me, realized that I was forgetting that a certain important thing was vital in how planted the rear felt through the day. The spoiler! Duh! The tail stuck coming into 11, where I sometimes have felt it break loose and I also have felt its impact at all the various higher speed portions of the track. I have emailed our friends at Mugen to get me the numbers on how much downforce is created at what speeds...I hope to get that back soon. I can't tell you how much this makes the tail stick at speed. Very impressive...
Now, one thing that I was not happy with was braking. Often two laps into the session, the pedal would get soft and that really bugged me. I'm running Motol DOT 4 600 fluid and the Hawk pads on the MG Racing rotors. I bled after the second session and the fluid was darkened. It looked like the pads glazed and there was a coating on the rotors from the pads that is still there, actually. The rotors are slotted and have cast-in holes. I expected to be able to stop better, have less fade and turn faster times with this setup, but that was not the case. I also have the King brake ducts. I'm considering going back to my stock rotors, I don't know, but braking was the only troublesome thing all day.
I also found that as opposed to the way it was before, on many of the longer straights, I would barely/rarely touch fourth. I was accelerating much faster out of the turns and carrying much more speed and even getting into fourth coming into turns 1 and 5 - something that I hadn't done before all these changes we have been making to the car. The ECU and header were doing their job...
Anyway, it was a fantastic day. I'm bored here at my client, looking for something to do. So I thought I'd write a little about a great day last week. Let me know if you have any questions! I'll probably post more to this thread as my bordome progresses and I think of more stuff...
I was at Gingerman for a Test and Tune day with the Supra boys this past Thursday. They asked me to be an "instructor" (cough cough) as I know the course very well and have spent many days and miles on it. About 12-14 TT Supras were there, 3 S2000's including mine, a couple of M3's, a couple Scoobys; an Eclipse here and there...all in all about 28 cars were there. Clark (member here) and I were running approximately the same times, 1:41's or thereabouts. The best Supra time was that, as well. This can be attributed to many things. One, and I think this is the biggest reason, is inexperience of track time where there are actual turns. Some of these cars were pushing close to 700 horsepower...amazing machines some of them were. They would carry 20+ more mph through the longest straight than the S2000. Wicked fast those cars are! At Road America these cars would smoke the S2000 like a cheap cigar, at a more technical and twisty course like G'man, we have an advantage. But as I said, it really comes down to the driver. Nick in his Skyline can do low 1:30's there all day and that car is set up much like some of the built Supras are.
This has more to do with driver (in)experience than anything, too, but I recall one of the M3's pulling low 1:50's. We had over 10 seconds on him. It only confirmed my opinion that you are not racing a car as much as you are racing the driver. You are not racing the car's limits, you are racing the limits of the person driving it. That is an important distinction that I have learned spending time at various race tracks.
Well, it's a big car and I think braking also plays a part in the reason why we were beating them. Many Supra's were going off the course, but no damage resulted. I kept it on the track all day and everything for me felt absolutely 100% right...I love days like that when everything comes together, mentally and physically and you are at the top of your game. For me, it was an excellent day. This was the first day that I had the car out there since putting the Mugen seat and spoiler on. It was also the first day that I had the MG Racing rotors there, as well. I felt so connected to the car and it felt so planted and stable. I attributed this to the seat and the feedback that I was getting from the car. It just felt so solid and that was never communicated before through the stock seat. What a tremendous feeling that was...
I sat back after the day was over and thought about my sessions and realized that I really didn't have any of the squirliness in the rear that I had before and, as I said, I thought it was just the communication/feedback that I was now getting with the seat. Well, then, stupid me, realized that I was forgetting that a certain important thing was vital in how planted the rear felt through the day. The spoiler! Duh! The tail stuck coming into 11, where I sometimes have felt it break loose and I also have felt its impact at all the various higher speed portions of the track. I have emailed our friends at Mugen to get me the numbers on how much downforce is created at what speeds...I hope to get that back soon. I can't tell you how much this makes the tail stick at speed. Very impressive...
Now, one thing that I was not happy with was braking. Often two laps into the session, the pedal would get soft and that really bugged me. I'm running Motol DOT 4 600 fluid and the Hawk pads on the MG Racing rotors. I bled after the second session and the fluid was darkened. It looked like the pads glazed and there was a coating on the rotors from the pads that is still there, actually. The rotors are slotted and have cast-in holes. I expected to be able to stop better, have less fade and turn faster times with this setup, but that was not the case. I also have the King brake ducts. I'm considering going back to my stock rotors, I don't know, but braking was the only troublesome thing all day.
I also found that as opposed to the way it was before, on many of the longer straights, I would barely/rarely touch fourth. I was accelerating much faster out of the turns and carrying much more speed and even getting into fourth coming into turns 1 and 5 - something that I hadn't done before all these changes we have been making to the car. The ECU and header were doing their job...
Anyway, it was a fantastic day. I'm bored here at my client, looking for something to do. So I thought I'd write a little about a great day last week. Let me know if you have any questions! I'll probably post more to this thread as my bordome progresses and I think of more stuff...
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From: Southwest Florida
Great story, I am jealous.. I wish I had more track experience, I will start autocrossing here in September, but I really want more road course experience.. there just isnt anything in my area 
How much does it run for a day at the track like that??
Chris
How much does it run for a day at the track like that??
Chris
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From: On the lakefront...
Chris, when we rent Gingerman ourselves, we get the track for about 2000 dollars. And we like to have about 20 cars...so it's usually about 100 bucks, give or take, depending on how many cars there are.
Track time is awesome...makes me do this ---->
I got some excelent footage too. I bought a wide angle lens for the digi-cam. I'll send it over to C3 and he can transfer it and put it in to the library of laps around various race tracks. Good stuff. Gingerman was included as part of the One Lap last year...we're lucky to have it so close...great folks over there.
Track time is awesome...makes me do this ---->
I got some excelent footage too. I bought a wide angle lens for the digi-cam. I'll send it over to C3 and he can transfer it and put it in to the library of laps around various race tracks. Good stuff. Gingerman was included as part of the One Lap last year...we're lucky to have it so close...great folks over there.
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From: Austin
Chris, contact CoralDoc or OPOverdrive to find out schedules at Sebring. You might also contact Dr. Chin of the NSX club (www.NSXFlorida.com) there in S. FL (he has an S2000 also), as he puts together a lot of events at Sebring and welcomes the S2000's. I believe Sebring is the closest "real" track in S. Florida, and it seemed like a really fun track, though it has no altitude changes (that makes a track twice as fun, IMHO).
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From: On the lakefront...
Originally posted by cdelena
[B]
1) If the fluid changed colors it may have more moisture than you wanted in it. Was it real fresh? Some fluids absorb moisture so fast that racers change it for every track day.. the Motul is probably not that way but I would not let it go more than three months before heading to the track.
[B]
1) If the fluid changed colors it may have more moisture than you wanted in it. Was it real fresh? Some fluids absorb moisture so fast that racers change it for every track day.. the Motul is probably not that way but I would not let it go more than three months before heading to the track.
[QUOTE]
2) Were the pads well bedded? Before you blame the rotors take a look at how they were bedded. Different pads bed faster than others.. the Porterfields are pretty fast, but the EBC
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From: Somewhere
Actually it was probably more due to driver inexperience. There was a lot of newbies there. Many of the Supra guys that came have never been on a roadcourse, let alone Gingerman. And the only Supra that would have pushed 700hp was Stephen's and he didn't bring it. I would have been really curious to see what his beast would have done. Most of the other Supras I think are "only" ~500hp.
It was my first time on the track also and it was fun, once I got over the fear of maybe rolling the car!
It was my first time on the track also and it was fun, once I got over the fear of maybe rolling the car!
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From: Davie, FL
Originally posted by Sondra S2K
Chris, contact CoralDoc or OPOverdrive to find out schedules at Sebring.
Chris, contact CoralDoc or OPOverdrive to find out schedules at Sebring.
.Chris - there are two fun track events coming up, one at Homestead on 13 October and the next at Sebring on 9 December. Here's the link to Chin Motorsports: http://www.chinmotorsports.com/events/list.asp
If you're planning to attend the next Equipe Rapide autocross on 15 September, I'll see you at Metrozoo! http://autox.carlc.com/