something better than VAFC but cheaper than EMS?
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Joined: Aug 2005
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From: Atlanta, GA
The AEM EMS is just a huge pain in the arse. A good way to describe it is trying to kill a fly with a sledgehammer. There is just so much more you have to rebuild when switching over to the AEM. It has bugs and quirks that aren't common knowledge until you get one. I ran an AEM EMS for over 2 years and was forced to become an expert with it because even the "best tuner in GA" couldn't get it running right. I could go on and on about the troubles I had with the AEM.
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Joined: Nov 2005
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Man...I don't want the AEM EMS anymore 
And now I'm sold on the E-manage 
Seriously, is the EMS not worth it over the e-manage? I always thought that the e-manage was basically the same as the vafc. Is there a big difference?
And now I'm sold on the E-manage Seriously, is the EMS not worth it over the e-manage? I always thought that the e-manage was basically the same as the vafc. Is there a big difference?
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Joined: Oct 2000
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From: Sydney
For NA there isn't a great deal of difference between the VAFC and E-manage. You get more detail but it's still messing with the MAP signal. The ignition timing is useless.
The Ultimate E-manage however directly controls injectors and I believe the ignition timing works so it might be worth a try.
The Ultimate E-manage however directly controls injectors and I believe the ignition timing works so it might be worth a try.
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 11,244
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From: Raleigh, NC
I think maybe you guys think that the EMS is a total PITA because you are using them for NA applications where you are probably just using the calibration from AEM and don't have a good base map to start with. I know for FI, EMS seems like the right choice if you can find a good tuner, but with NA it might be overkill if you just have boltons.
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 82
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From: Atlanta, GA
My other car is a fully built turbo Integra. I had the AEM EMS for my Integra and had it tuned by Ed Senf who is coauthor of Grassroots Motorsports Magazine. People supposedly have their cars sent to him from across the country just so he can tune it. He is regarded as the best tuner in the southeast by many. He even advised me against the AEM EMS but I bought into all the hype about this great new standalone that could do everything. Even for FI I would guess that 99% of the people running an EMS would be just as well off with something simpler like an Emanage.
I don't know anything about the new versions of the Emanage and Ultimate Emanage. I haven't paid attention to this stuff in a while but 3-4 years ago the Emanage had the ability to fully rebuild the fuel and ignition map for any injector size. It also had boost control capabilities. Now for 99% of people with FI I think this is sufficient. The VAFC only had the capability to alter the fuel at WOT and one part throttle fuel map. I don't think the VAFC could alter the ignition map either. So the VAFC and Emanage were on completely different levels with the VAFC being the cheapest and worst. Again this was 3-4 years ago so I don't know how they are now.
Even with the PITA aspects about the AEM EMS aside, it had quirks that I finally got fed up with. To name a few did you know when running the EMS the engine had to turn over for like 5-10 seconds before it would fire up? Sometimes I was stranded because my car wouldn't crank up due to the EMS. I had to keep my stock ECU in the trunk so I could swap out the EMS when I couldn't get it to crank with the EMS. Many people had this complaint and AEM addressed this with new software that had a quick start option that did a batch fuel inject on startup. It helped but it never started right up like with the stock ECU. It would still turn over for a few seconds before it would fire up.
Another quirk was the decel. fuel cutoff (DFCO) feature. It shuts off the fuel injectors when under deceleration just like the stock ECU does. I had my DFCO threshold set at 2000 rpm. On occasion when I was driving normal and upshifting I managed to land the RPM's right on 2000 where the threshold was set. The AEM would have a heart attack and the whole car would start bucking back and forth violently (keep in mind this is while I was driving 30-40 mph on a public rd). The only way to stop it was to put the clutch in and try again. This was a very rare occasion and only happened to me twice in the 2 years I had it but it was a scary experience. After the second time I disabled the DFCO and just leaned out the high vacuum portion of the fuel map. There were other issues with the AEM but I'd better stop before I write a novel.
I don't know anything about the new versions of the Emanage and Ultimate Emanage. I haven't paid attention to this stuff in a while but 3-4 years ago the Emanage had the ability to fully rebuild the fuel and ignition map for any injector size. It also had boost control capabilities. Now for 99% of people with FI I think this is sufficient. The VAFC only had the capability to alter the fuel at WOT and one part throttle fuel map. I don't think the VAFC could alter the ignition map either. So the VAFC and Emanage were on completely different levels with the VAFC being the cheapest and worst. Again this was 3-4 years ago so I don't know how they are now.
Even with the PITA aspects about the AEM EMS aside, it had quirks that I finally got fed up with. To name a few did you know when running the EMS the engine had to turn over for like 5-10 seconds before it would fire up? Sometimes I was stranded because my car wouldn't crank up due to the EMS. I had to keep my stock ECU in the trunk so I could swap out the EMS when I couldn't get it to crank with the EMS. Many people had this complaint and AEM addressed this with new software that had a quick start option that did a batch fuel inject on startup. It helped but it never started right up like with the stock ECU. It would still turn over for a few seconds before it would fire up.
Another quirk was the decel. fuel cutoff (DFCO) feature. It shuts off the fuel injectors when under deceleration just like the stock ECU does. I had my DFCO threshold set at 2000 rpm. On occasion when I was driving normal and upshifting I managed to land the RPM's right on 2000 where the threshold was set. The AEM would have a heart attack and the whole car would start bucking back and forth violently (keep in mind this is while I was driving 30-40 mph on a public rd). The only way to stop it was to put the clutch in and try again. This was a very rare occasion and only happened to me twice in the 2 years I had it but it was a scary experience. After the second time I disabled the DFCO and just leaned out the high vacuum portion of the fuel map. There were other issues with the AEM but I'd better stop before I write a novel.
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Joined: Feb 2006
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From: San Jose, CA
Originally Posted by wet_poo,Mar 9 2006, 09:38 AM
My other car is a fully built turbo Integra. I had the AEM EMS for my Integra and had it tuned by Ed Senf who is coauthor of Grassroots Motorsports Magazine. People supposedly have their cars sent to him from across the country just so he can tune it. He is regarded as the best tuner in the southeast by many. He even advised me against the AEM EMS but I bought into all the hype about this great new standalone that could do everything. Even for FI I would guess that 99% of the people running an EMS would be just as well off with something simpler like an Emanage.
I don't know anything about the new versions of the Emanage and Ultimate Emanage. I haven't paid attention to this stuff in a while but 3-4 years ago the Emanage had the ability to fully rebuild the fuel and ignition map for any injector size. It also had boost control capabilities. Now for 99% of people with FI I think this is sufficient. The VAFC only had the capability to alter the fuel at WOT and one part throttle fuel map. I don't think the VAFC could alter the ignition map either. So the VAFC and Emanage were on completely different levels with the VAFC being the cheapest and worst. Again this was 3-4 years ago so I don't know how they are now.
Even with the PITA aspects about the AEM EMS aside, it had quirks that I finally got fed up with. To name a few did you know when running the EMS the engine had to turn over for like 5-10 seconds before it would fire up? Sometimes I was stranded because my car wouldn't crank up due to the EMS. I had to keep my stock ECU in the trunk so I could swap out the EMS when I couldn't get it to crank with the EMS. Many people had this complaint and AEM addressed this with new software that had a quick start option that did a batch fuel inject on startup. It helped but it never started right up like with the stock ECU. It would still turn over for a few seconds before it would fire up.
Another quirk was the decel. fuel cutoff (DFCO) feature. It shuts off the fuel injectors when under deceleration just like the stock ECU does. I had my DFCO threshold set at 2000 rpm. On occasion when I was driving normal and upshifting I managed to land the RPM's right on 2000 where the threshold was set. The AEM would have a heart attack and the whole car would start bucking back and forth violently (keep in mind this is while I was driving 30-40 mph on a public rd). The only way to stop it was to put the clutch in and try again. This was a very rare occasion and only happened to me twice in the 2 years I had it but it was a scary experience. After the second time I disabled the DFCO and just leaned out the high vacuum portion of the fuel map. There were other issues with the AEM but I'd better stop before I write a novel.
I don't know anything about the new versions of the Emanage and Ultimate Emanage. I haven't paid attention to this stuff in a while but 3-4 years ago the Emanage had the ability to fully rebuild the fuel and ignition map for any injector size. It also had boost control capabilities. Now for 99% of people with FI I think this is sufficient. The VAFC only had the capability to alter the fuel at WOT and one part throttle fuel map. I don't think the VAFC could alter the ignition map either. So the VAFC and Emanage were on completely different levels with the VAFC being the cheapest and worst. Again this was 3-4 years ago so I don't know how they are now.
Even with the PITA aspects about the AEM EMS aside, it had quirks that I finally got fed up with. To name a few did you know when running the EMS the engine had to turn over for like 5-10 seconds before it would fire up? Sometimes I was stranded because my car wouldn't crank up due to the EMS. I had to keep my stock ECU in the trunk so I could swap out the EMS when I couldn't get it to crank with the EMS. Many people had this complaint and AEM addressed this with new software that had a quick start option that did a batch fuel inject on startup. It helped but it never started right up like with the stock ECU. It would still turn over for a few seconds before it would fire up.
Another quirk was the decel. fuel cutoff (DFCO) feature. It shuts off the fuel injectors when under deceleration just like the stock ECU does. I had my DFCO threshold set at 2000 rpm. On occasion when I was driving normal and upshifting I managed to land the RPM's right on 2000 where the threshold was set. The AEM would have a heart attack and the whole car would start bucking back and forth violently (keep in mind this is while I was driving 30-40 mph on a public rd). The only way to stop it was to put the clutch in and try again. This was a very rare occasion and only happened to me twice in the 2 years I had it but it was a scary experience. After the second time I disabled the DFCO and just leaned out the high vacuum portion of the fuel map. There were other issues with the AEM but I'd better stop before I write a novel.
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 82
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From: Atlanta, GA
I'm sure there are people who would defend the AEM EMS if they read this but the fact of the matter is you are reinventing the wheel when you switch to the AEM. You are literally spending hours upon hours rebuilding the maps and countless fuel tables getting the engine to run properly like battery comp table, boost comp table, acceleration fuel table, intake air temp fuel comp table, idle tables, etc. All of these which have already been perfected by honda engineers on the stock ECU.