I have an Eibach ProKit, which drops the car an inch, and does an excellent job of minimizing the downsides. If an one inch drop is enough (and frankly I couldn't live with my car on the street if it was any lower) then you'll probably be happy with a ProKit. There are however some downsides you should probably consider.

Reduced ground clearance means you'll be more likely to scrape on driveways and speed bumps. It also means less suspension travel, and since you can't use springs with grossly different rates over the stock shocks, the car is going to bottom more often, IF (and only if) you drive on nasty roads carrying excessive speed. I have yet bottom out the suspension on my car except for one time when we had an autocross that crossed a nasty dip at a 90-degree angle. I was still able to set the car down gently on the bump stops and keep up good speed over the dip, and I still won my class, so for me at least this hasn't turned out too be a major issue. Your situation is apt to be different, so don't lower without considering the clearance and travel issues.

You sould also realize that lowering with springs is not going to improve the handling of the car. It lowers the cars center of gravity, and if that is all there were to it, there would be less total weight transfer during cornering, but the lowering also produces some undesirable changes in both the static and dynamic suspension geometry, and the roll axis actually drops more than the CG. As a result the roll couple actually increases rather than decreasing. With the ProKit's 1" drop this is hardly noticable, and on the roads I drive on and at the places where I autocross I can't say that either the handling or the ride quality changed much when the car was lowered. Your mileage may vary, but the downsides aren't what some would have you believe, at least not with a well designed set of springs and a modest drop. Most of the guys who assure you that it will screw up your handling are far to convinced that they're right to ever try it themselves, and others have lowered other cars, often by several inches, and don't realize that the S2000 is a whole nother matter. My autocross times were not changed noticably after lowering the car, and the car handled just fine; Well enough to keep winning.

There is also a bump steer issue with any car that is lowered, at both ends of the car. This is the case whether you lower by cutting the springs or by installing the most expensive coil over kit you can find, so take it with a grain of salt when you're told that coil overs fix all the problems that lowering with springs brings to the table. That's simply not the case. It takes more than just shocks or coil overs to restore the geometry back to stock (or better) after it's been altered by lowering.

One more thing you should consider is that your car is an MY02. That means that your car has a cornering bias that is somewhat less prone to oversteer than my MY00. The difference is in the spring rates, so if you install a ProKit like I did you're going to have handling with a slightly stronger bias toward oversteer. If the car is already scaring you with it's handling characteristics then the ProKit is probably a bad choice.

Get your advice from people who have tried specific products, consider all opinions and all real world experience you can discover, and then make an informed choice. If you think a ProKit might suit you just ask your vendor if you can return them if they screw up the handling. Try them and decide for yourself how much they screw the car up. If you're like me, you'll be very pleasantly surprised.

 

[QUOTE=RED MX5,Sep 19 2006, 08:18 PM] I can't say that there won't be problems with other MY cars, or other springs (because the rate and drop will likely be different), but in my experience the Eibach ProKit, which is actually designed to work with the stock shocks, doesn't shorten shock life at all.

 

[QUOTE=Tugz_S2K,Sep 19 2006, 08:58 PM]All I can do is communicate from experience and from the experience of others.
I too had a 2000 Civic SiR Coupe (Si in the US) and installed Eibach pro-kit springs on OEM struts. On the drive home from the shop (30miles later) I noticed the front shocks to be very soft. Sure enough when I pulled into the driveway there was a puddle of hydraulic oil below the car. I blew 3 out of the 4 struts right away. I was so pissed that I had to do the suspension work all over again.

Lowering springs may be designed to work with OEM struts but think of it from the other angle. Do you think Honda designed OEM shocks to work with the increased load and stress of lowering springs? OEM struts are tuned and designed to work with a specific spring with specific dampening, rebound and height specifications....changing all of this to

 

Come on guys. The OP has said that he doesn't care if the cars handlilng is improved, as long as it isn't screwed up. The ProKit hardly changes the ride or handling of the car at all, except as I noted in my original post. Sure in theory and in fact, there are negative side effects to lowering, and I even touched on each of the major ones in my post. The extra stresses on the car and it's parts is hardly different from stock springs, because the higher rate comes on progressively as the springs compress. This actually slows the compression, making the shocks life a little easier, at least on one direction. When the spring starts to return to the static position acceleration rates are a little higher, but exactly how much higher? Eibach says not enough for the springs to have problems with or cause problems with the stock shocks, and that is also consistent with what the majority of the members of S2kI who have the kit have found to be the case.

Do a Google search on "ProKit" and count the percentage of threads where ProKit owners are complaining about "blown" shocks. The experience of the many is the best indicator.

As for the handling after lowering, it sure hasn't stopped me from winning autocrosses, and I'm no Fangio. (I may be as old, but all the more amazing that I can still win at what is more often a young mans game. ) I run my car on S02's and stock rims, and it is extremely rare for anybody running tires with an equal or higher wear rating to beat my car. I even beat most of the guys running R compound tires or racing rubber, and that simply would not be possible if the ProKit screwed up the handling the way some of the theorists imagine.

Theory and speculation is all well and good, and of course there have been some dissatisfied ProKit owners, and some shock failures shortly after the ProKit was installed, but I'll bet there have also been engine or transmission faliures after a ProKit install, and that's not the result of the lowering either.

I'm telling you guys, the ProKit is great. After the drop, get the car aligned to UK specs, and it will ride and handle so close to a stock MY00-01 AP1 that you'll be hard put to tell the difference most of the time. You will not improve the handling, but you'll get a lower stance, so if that's the goal the ProKit will do it for you without killing the car or the shocks or anything else.

Look, I'm not a professional driver, so my assessment of the cars handling, in any state of tune, means very little. However, my car has been driven by at least four multi-time national autocross champions, none of whom had a clue what mods had been done, and they all stated that the handling of the car was "amazing." The girl who is favored to win in open class at the nationals this year in a borrowed Porsche GT3 was blown away by the responsiveness of my car, and by how much easier it was to cut a hot lap in my S than it was in her GT3. I'm not the only one who thinks the car has wonderful handling, and some of those who've driven it and given it their stamp of approval know more about handling than 99.99% of the people participating in these discussions.

 

Civic or S2000, really it doesnt matter?? Does the S2000's suspension function any different then a Civic's suspension? The Operating principle and design intent of a suspension system are all the same. Especially between two cars that use a similar double wishbone setup. Regardless, the fact is, you do decrease the life of your OEM struts with any lowering spring and this applies to any vehicle. Good luck...

 

[QUOTE=Tugz_S2K,Sep 20 2006, 08:14 AM]Civic or S2000, really it doesnt matter?? Does the S2000's suspension function any different then a Civic's suspension? The Operating principle and design intent of a suspension system are all the same. Especially between two cars that use

 

LoL.... No struts? When was the last time you looked under your car?....you have no technical understanding of how a Strut works do you? Therefore you really dont understand the effect of lowering an OEM strut. Typical.....

Ok the technical term for the part is a Damper. Do you know what a Damper is?

Damper a.k.a
Strut, Shock, Absorber

 

I also have the Eibach pro-kit and I love it. My car sits perfect, not too low but definitely lower than stock

 

Why are you being so mean to the person that posted this?

 

Tugz, let me begin by apologizing for my previous response to your post. After I re-read it I realized that I sounded the way XViper sounds when I get on to him for being too harsh with people, and even though constantly correcting misinformation gets old after a while I think we all have to try to be civil. I didn't mean to be uncivil, but after I read my own post I realized that it came across that way, and I'm sorry.

It's always better to simply educate the misinformed than it is to tell them how little they know, and I really do try to take that route. How about we work through our misunderstanding together? After all, the facts will eventually surface, and then everybody wins. If I'm wrong, I learn, and if you're wrong, you'll learn, and everyone else with either learn something or have a good laugh at our expense. This should be both fun and infomative, and you and I have gotten off on the wrong foot. It's my fault, and I probably sholdn't even be posting while I'm still chafed over the NOPI show, but I think I can do better. Are you up for it?

Let's start with some basic information. There are three types of struts used on automotive suspensions. There is the McPherson strut, the Chapman strut, and the modified McPherson strut. These suspensions all use a "strut" that is, by definition, both a shock absorber, and a locating link like the A-arms on our car. If they don't work as a locating link then technically they're not a strut. Our cars have unequal length A-arms, which is totally different from, and superior to, strut type suspensions (though some of the best handling cars in the world do use struts). A shock absorber and a damper are the same thing, but a strut is something else altogether. When I finish ranting () I'll include a link for those who will no doubt think I'm just some dumb Georgia redneck who is talking out my ass. I assure you, and will prove beyond any doubt, that this isn't the case at all. Our cars actually have what suspension engineers call "non-adjustable coil-overs." Coil-overs look like struts, because both have the springs over the dampers, but the difference is that struts double as a suspension arm. No no-it-all ever accepts good information without argument, but rather than argue with you on the strut thing I'll just give you a link and ask that you educate yourself a little better before continuing to argue.

Learn the difference between struts and a-arms by clicking this link.

If you are still skeptical or confused, let me know and I'll find as many links as you need to convince you that our cars don't have struts.

To answer your questions directly, yes, I know exactly what a damper is, what a shock absorber is, and what a strut is, and if you're paying attention you now know that they are not all three the same thing.

Have we settled the strut issue now?

For those who don't want to click through to look at the link the following picture and quote pretty much covers the issue ...



If you need to look under your car and see if it's got struts like the right half of the picture above, feel free, but you can actually believe me when I tell you that there is no strut and our cars are like the suspension shown on the left half of the picture. Of course most of you already know that. It's just confusing to some because some people know that any time the spring is around the shock it's either a strut or a coil-over, but don't have a clear understanding of the differences. It's a common mistake, and no big deal. Common mistake, now corrected.

As for the additional stresses and forces that the Eibach ProKit is supposed to bring to the equation, certainly, the stresses and forces ARE increased, but blowing smoke out ones backside doesn't quantify the increase. As I said before (and damn I hate having to repeat it ), I looked into the ProKit very carefully before putting the things on my car. I even went to the trouble of calculating reasonable estimates of the forces involved (and that's a pain in the butt), and found them to be negligable. I did this nearly two years ago, using spread sheets, a CAD package, Euler, a calculator, the Web, the telephone, and probably a few dozen sticky notes, so it was never very organized, and I have no idea where any of it is now. However, I do remember that the results indicated that the additional stresses on EVERY part of the car were negligable. Now I'm no smarter or better at math than anyone else, so it is entirely possible that I made mistakes in my calculations, but I was pretty careful, and I usually catch most of my mistakes before I modify my car. Since what I am saying here is not in conflict with what Eibach claims, it's on those who are claiming that Eibach and I are fools to prove their point, so by all means, go for it. If I'm wrong, show me the source and magnitude of the forces you're claiming will kill our shocks, and if your math isn't in error I'll be more than happy to admit that I was wrong, and that Eibach's eigineers are full of crap. Until you can do at least that much, you're just talking theory with no supportable basis in fact.

I believe you were wrong about struts, and that you were wrong about the stresses, and I think we've settled the strut issue now. Balls in your court. Tell us about the source and magnitude of the stresses that are going to distroy our shocks. Also tell us why it actually happens to so few people in practice. Your serve.

It's all good Tugz, so don't take it too seroiusly. I could be totally wrong in everything I've said. It happens. When it does I usually end up smarter for it, so if you can educate me, please proceed.