StonGard's response to the message board
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,023
Likes: 0
From: Phoenix
I got a pm several days ago from an individual, who shall remain namesless, who told me Ston Gard was going to resolve the issue. I have yet to hear anything from Ston Gard. My lights are still cracked.
To answer an earlier question: The cracks go all the way through the lenses. I can't tell if they are cracked from the inside out or outside in.
I did speak with my Honda dealer today. I told him that I had Ston Gard on the lights when they cracked and that I wanted to be honest and up front with him as far as a warranty claim is concerned. He found that interesting but said he would still replace the lights for me. I thought that was excellent customer service.
When or if I hear anything from Ston Gard, I'll post it. Still no offer of a refund either.
[Edited by SCS2k on 05-24-2001 at 02:01 PM]
To answer an earlier question: The cracks go all the way through the lenses. I can't tell if they are cracked from the inside out or outside in.
I did speak with my Honda dealer today. I told him that I had Ston Gard on the lights when they cracked and that I wanted to be honest and up front with him as far as a warranty claim is concerned. He found that interesting but said he would still replace the lights for me. I thought that was excellent customer service.
When or if I hear anything from Ston Gard, I'll post it. Still no offer of a refund either.
[Edited by SCS2k on 05-24-2001 at 02:01 PM]
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 819
Likes: 5
From: Seattle, WA
Just so everyone knows, Tim has read these posts. For obvious reasons, he's hesitant to post any type of response. Heck, I would too - no offense, but some of these posts are truly mean! Anything he says will get misinterpreted - it's the name of the game when it comes to message boards like this - you can never get the tone of a message when it's typed. There are always two sides of the story, and we've heard a ton from the Doc. I don't know enough to say who's in the right, but I can vouch for Tim not being a big meanie like you guys think!
The impression I got from Tim was they have in the past had similar situations with cracking lenses on various types of cars. Whenever they've investigated, it's always been a manufacturer issue, not a StonGard one. So it makes perfect sense to me that if he's had tons of people happy with the product on many S2K's, his first initial reaction would be again that it's a manufacturer defect when there was a problem. Personally, I'd make the same assumption. The fact that Honda is willing to replace them is a huge thing to me - I've owned 5 Integras, 2 S2K's, 1 Civic and 1 Accord. On stuff like this Honda (or Acura) has always thrown a fit, saying it wasn't them, they won't fix it.
So look at it from Tim's perspective... in the past it had been a manufactuer defect that was fixed under warranty by the manufacturer - wouldn't it make sense that this would possibly, just possibly be the same?
I've volunteered and Tim's agreed to test a set on my car that he can monitor on an ongoing basis, since I live near his facility. I have every faith that the product is good - otherwise I'd NEVER subject my "baby" to it...
Just my measly $0.02
Annie
The impression I got from Tim was they have in the past had similar situations with cracking lenses on various types of cars. Whenever they've investigated, it's always been a manufacturer issue, not a StonGard one. So it makes perfect sense to me that if he's had tons of people happy with the product on many S2K's, his first initial reaction would be again that it's a manufacturer defect when there was a problem. Personally, I'd make the same assumption. The fact that Honda is willing to replace them is a huge thing to me - I've owned 5 Integras, 2 S2K's, 1 Civic and 1 Accord. On stuff like this Honda (or Acura) has always thrown a fit, saying it wasn't them, they won't fix it.
So look at it from Tim's perspective... in the past it had been a manufactuer defect that was fixed under warranty by the manufacturer - wouldn't it make sense that this would possibly, just possibly be the same?
I've volunteered and Tim's agreed to test a set on my car that he can monitor on an ongoing basis, since I live near his facility. I have every faith that the product is good - otherwise I'd NEVER subject my "baby" to it...
Just my measly $0.02
Annie
Honorary Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,121
Likes: 3
From: Indian Land SC
I'm totally new to this, and the "Stongard" topic is my first experience with internet forums. WOW, what an initiation.
1. Someone mentioned 'why protect polycarbonate lenses that are so tough anyway?' A - to prevent b-zillions of stone chips in the surface. I had an Eclipse GST for 3 years and the lenses were pitted like the moon when I sold it(all highway driving). I now have Stongard on my S2K lenses to stop that from happening.
2. Heat as a problem? I have my doubts, I just went in the garage and stuck my hand in front of the HID's and then did the same on my wife's Lexus with incandescant lights. I think the incandescants put out more heat, which make sense because incandescants are very high in infra-red output, unlike HID which are tilted toward the ultra-violet end of the spectrum (that's why they look blue).
3. Speaking of UV, has anyone (even the mfr) considered the UV angle? UV tears up everything else in the plastic domain, why not headlamp lenses?
4. Consider this off - the - wall "What if" scenario:
Customer puts a new product, Rockgard on his lenses only to have the lenses crack a few months later. He goes to see his installer, who calls Rockgard immediately. Rockgard's reply is that they are 100% sure their product is not the culprit, but just to show their customer satisfaction prowess, they authorize the installer to give the customer $2000 to have the headlights replaced professionally. Customer does so, and is pleased to tell everyone on this forum what wonderful service he got. The next 3 hours this forum would have everybody and their mother praising Rockgard. THEN, a few would tire of shouting praises, and would wonder if Rockgard was really as good as they seem. Maybe Rockgard responded so quickly with so much money simply to shut up the customer. Maybe it really is Rockgard's fault, they just want to keep the problem under wraps so other customers will continue buying. After all, they didn't even want to investigate, test the lenses, or anything. Hey, these Rockgard guys are just out to get as much money as they can short-term, then when the problems cut into the profits, they'll shut down and walk away with a bundle, and we'll all have bad headlights. These guys are real dirt-bags, hiding behind "customer service" like that.
Think it wouldn't happen?
1. Someone mentioned 'why protect polycarbonate lenses that are so tough anyway?' A - to prevent b-zillions of stone chips in the surface. I had an Eclipse GST for 3 years and the lenses were pitted like the moon when I sold it(all highway driving). I now have Stongard on my S2K lenses to stop that from happening.
2. Heat as a problem? I have my doubts, I just went in the garage and stuck my hand in front of the HID's and then did the same on my wife's Lexus with incandescant lights. I think the incandescants put out more heat, which make sense because incandescants are very high in infra-red output, unlike HID which are tilted toward the ultra-violet end of the spectrum (that's why they look blue).
3. Speaking of UV, has anyone (even the mfr) considered the UV angle? UV tears up everything else in the plastic domain, why not headlamp lenses?
4. Consider this off - the - wall "What if" scenario:
Customer puts a new product, Rockgard on his lenses only to have the lenses crack a few months later. He goes to see his installer, who calls Rockgard immediately. Rockgard's reply is that they are 100% sure their product is not the culprit, but just to show their customer satisfaction prowess, they authorize the installer to give the customer $2000 to have the headlights replaced professionally. Customer does so, and is pleased to tell everyone on this forum what wonderful service he got. The next 3 hours this forum would have everybody and their mother praising Rockgard. THEN, a few would tire of shouting praises, and would wonder if Rockgard was really as good as they seem. Maybe Rockgard responded so quickly with so much money simply to shut up the customer. Maybe it really is Rockgard's fault, they just want to keep the problem under wraps so other customers will continue buying. After all, they didn't even want to investigate, test the lenses, or anything. Hey, these Rockgard guys are just out to get as much money as they can short-term, then when the problems cut into the profits, they'll shut down and walk away with a bundle, and we'll all have bad headlights. These guys are real dirt-bags, hiding behind "customer service" like that.
Think it wouldn't happen?
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,731
Likes: 0
From: Phoenix
Hmmm, since the consensus is that the issue is either:
1) the wrong cleaner being used by the installer, or
2) a problem with the severe heat in Arizona,
How will your experiment prove anything? I assume that your installer will use the right cleaner on the lenses. You don't have a location listed, but I assume that you are not in Arizona. I predict that you that you don't see a problem. Easy, right?
Instead, how about if Tim has a materials analysis done of SCS2K's lenses to determine what caused the cracking? I have a buddy who does stress analysis on Boeing 737 wings, and he says that any competent materials engineer would be able to tell what caused the cracking, in an hour in the lab.
If Tim sends the lenses to a lab, he will have a final, definite answer to all of our questions regarding the safety of the product. If you put Stongard on your lenses, we know nothing more than we do today: Stongard does not always damage the lenses.
Can you give me one good reason why Tim won't want to have this analysis done? It is an excellent chance to redeem the reputation of his product.
P.S. -- Banannie, please re-read Tim's post. It wasn't twisted by the folks on this board; it was hostile and threatening, IMHO.
1) the wrong cleaner being used by the installer, or
2) a problem with the severe heat in Arizona,
How will your experiment prove anything? I assume that your installer will use the right cleaner on the lenses. You don't have a location listed, but I assume that you are not in Arizona. I predict that you that you don't see a problem. Easy, right?
Instead, how about if Tim has a materials analysis done of SCS2K's lenses to determine what caused the cracking? I have a buddy who does stress analysis on Boeing 737 wings, and he says that any competent materials engineer would be able to tell what caused the cracking, in an hour in the lab.
If Tim sends the lenses to a lab, he will have a final, definite answer to all of our questions regarding the safety of the product. If you put Stongard on your lenses, we know nothing more than we do today: Stongard does not always damage the lenses.
Can you give me one good reason why Tim won't want to have this analysis done? It is an excellent chance to redeem the reputation of his product.
P.S. -- Banannie, please re-read Tim's post. It wasn't twisted by the folks on this board; it was hostile and threatening, IMHO.
