I recently posted a feedback question regarding my pending purchase from a dealer of a "new" 2001 Red/Blk Honda S2k. The car has 1,100 dealer miles on it. The helpful response I have gotten has been to cancel the deal because the car was probably broken in improperly and driven hard by the dealer.

I agree and understand this response. However I was hoping an engineer or someone with technical experience could provide a technical explanation of why this improper break-in would hurt the S2k VTEC engine and car over it long run life?

I appreciate any help or input as this is a major purchase for me and this car is the only thing I want and it would pain me a great deal to end up with a sub-par S2k, but it would also pain me to pass on this deal.

 

Here's the short and sweet version. Someone else can post you a detailed version if they want to.

The breakin is critical because you need to seat your piston rings. Too much stress in the first 500 or 750 miles (1000 miles if you wanna be cautious) will result in poor initial seating of the rings with the cylinder walls, which will lead to premature wear which means smoking, lower compression, etc... in short your block won't last as long. Also, you want the gentle break in for the rest of the block as well - seals, moving parts - although this isn't as important as the rings.

basically.

I think you need to let your valve train, seals, and guides break in a little also.
i think.

I'm no expert. Anyone welcome to correct me...

 

I would agree with Shoyu Burner. A gentle bedding in of all moving parts has got to be desirable. Thrashing newly machined parts from the word go just can't be good. I'm no authority either but it just seems sound common sense. Don't forget either, that this engine is real space age technology, the block being made out of aluminium and fibre! I had my test drive in a dealer car, which wasn't particularly well looked after. I also know from talking to staff at my dealership, that they fight over the keys to get out and VTEC at the least excuse. Understandable I suppose! I'm not sure what's the right thing for you to do, it's a personal choice. Some members on this board will tell you they VTEC'd from the word go and have suffered no problems. Andy Pandy on the U.K. Board bought a demo car and he's more than happy with it. If you really fancy this demo car, what the hell, you'll have a full warranty!

 

Just read your initial post and although the price is good, I'd probably pass too. My test drive car was under 600 miles, and yes, I took it to readline. Hell, I wouldn't buy the car without at least a "feel" for it's capabilities. It's highly doubtful that other potential customers didn't do the same. I bought a different car though from that dealer with 2 miles on it and got it the day it came off the truck.

Shop around some. In this area, there must be quite a few 01's out there to be had. Surf for Honda dealers and make a few phone calls, you can probably get close to this number without the demo miles, especially if MYo2's are on the lot. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

BTW, I paid MSRP in August, gotta be lower now (01's).

 

At the end of the day, the choice is yours but I would not get paranoid over the issue.
My car had 1500 miles on the clock when I had it as it was a dealer demo car. I have no doubt the car was thrashed for many of those miles. I was not concerned and the car runs perfectly.
I am a senior metallurgist for a major engine manufacturer in the U.K. and as such know a bit about engines and wear
As long as the oil has been topped up as necessary, I would say go for the car and enjoy any money you save in the process.

 

I have been to a number of Japanese automobile manuafacturing plants and at least at the Toyota and Lexus plants your vehicles have already seen the redline. Part of the quality control at Toyota/Lexus is an NVH test which gets the car on the dyno, revved to top engine speeds and then it is placed on a suspension shaker to check for squeaks and rattles.

If Honda is anything like this your car has been VTEC'd already. I barely made it 250 miles of break-in before VTEC. Power is a dangerous thing.

 

I definately agree with TJ Stooker. Porsche for example tests and tunes all of their automobiles during production. This includes a dyno test. They then recommend after to have the customer take it easy for 1000 miles. The thing is, many other things must break in besides an engine. Things like clutchs, brakes, tranny, and rear diff need real care.

I agree that our motors continue to develop power until about 5000 miles, but new motors are honed, and are made with great precision. Also, many drag racers develop and build racing motors only to make them scream right after completion.

 

This same break-in clause is desirable in rebuilt and remanufactured engines as well. But for the record (and perhaps I'll pay for this down the road), I share a purchase experience similar to Andy Pandy -- and likely a few others on the boards as well: that of purchasing a S2K with miles already on it.

I purchased my '01 stook from CarMax in November. And while I was surprised to find that I was about to become the 3rd owner (1st sold in March '01) in the car's 3100 miles on the odometer...the car performed well for me. Cripe, I mean it was just ready for its first oil change! . I've experienced no mechanical issues thus far...and on the contrary, with now nearly 7K miles on the odo, its as strong as I could imagine. I ran with a bunch of S2K owners in MD a month ago & kept up nicely. Similarly, I occasionally pull my "light traffic duty" time against would-be "kills" for kicks with no problems either.

Now I guess I should say, that "to each his/her own". I've come to accept, right from the get-go, that someone may have abused this car during its break-in. Hell, to have sold 2 times, just being in a car lot can make it suspect... But, again, it comes down to actual performance, mechanical soundness, audible nuances, etc. And for me, I've not looked back. I will say that my car *does* have a notchy shift btw 2nd & 3rd, and I have the TSB clutch issue to resolve (but I perceive that as being a design flaw...not a break-in issue...given the extent of complaints owners have had over these two specific issues). Other than that, The Bruised Banana is tops in my book! Good luck on your decision (whether it be the car you are looking at today...or the car you check out tomorrow)

 

I believe Shoyu Burner and Cedric - improper breakin, you just never know what the heck happened at with the eager-dealers.

and w1ngman, 3100 miles ready for first oil change? not necessarily. read up in the manual and suggestions on the board. I wouldn't do the first oil change before 5K miles, but that's my take. The manual recommends at 7500 miles. I did mine at 5500 miles, after adding several quarts beforehand. And avoid synth oil for the first change.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Schatten
[B]...and w1ngman, 3100 miles ready for first oil change?