Technical strut bar comparison
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From: WA
having installed and closely examined 2 strut bars:
Neuspeed
Spoon
Here are some observations:
Neuspeed
The bar is certainly rigid - being made of a single (actually 3 welded bars excluding the end mount pieces) piece chrome plated steel. However, the chrome around the mounting points is likely to peel/crack upon installation. The mounting holes are oblong in shape - which makes installation easier but this also means there is room for the bar to "creep" as the chassis flexes.
Spoon
The bar itself, being made of an Aluminum alloy, does flex in the vertical direction - though this is not a significant issue considering that the stresses are longitudunal across the bar. The mounting brackets have mounting holes that are a little larger than the bolts and have some play in it when unfastened. Again, there is some room for the brackets to theoretically "creep". The hinge point between the bracket and the bar is secured by an allen bolt - however, when unfastened, there is some play in the bar as well - hence another potential for creep, though less so than at the other points because there is a larger metal to metal contact area to hold the pieces together at this hinge.
I also managed to look at an S2000 that did had the stock airbox removed - what a lot of room there is! There is a chassis cross bar that is probably the largest cross brace you can imaged - about a 3"x3" cross section I beam! that connects the upper wishbone mounting points from left to right. Because of this, I don't think an upper strut bar is going to help much. Keep in mind that in most of the other Hondas, the upper wishbone is actually connected to the tower bars whereas on the S2000 (and the NSX), the upper wishbones are connected laterally to the chassis rails.
However, the cross brace should offer significant benefits because:
1) the 4 point mounting system allows the brace to have virtually no creep
2) it ties the lower wishbones' mounting points together and prevents diagonal movement of those points. Without the cross brace, the stock bracing does not prevent the points from moving diagonally. Imagine a rectangle - the length of the sides stay pretty constant because of the stock bracing. But the top and bottom sides of the rectangle can still move sideways relative to each other - the cross brace eliminates this movement.
Suggested cross brace improvements...
1) make it lighter - it only needs axial strength
2) make it more aerodynamic - the underside of cars contributes quite significantly to aerodynamics of a car - the current spoon bar really protrudes into the air flow under the car - by about 1+" - maybe a CF plate with a more aero leading edge may help - or aero shaped tubes and mounting points.
Anybody takers?
Neuspeed
Spoon
Here are some observations:
Neuspeed
The bar is certainly rigid - being made of a single (actually 3 welded bars excluding the end mount pieces) piece chrome plated steel. However, the chrome around the mounting points is likely to peel/crack upon installation. The mounting holes are oblong in shape - which makes installation easier but this also means there is room for the bar to "creep" as the chassis flexes.
Spoon
The bar itself, being made of an Aluminum alloy, does flex in the vertical direction - though this is not a significant issue considering that the stresses are longitudunal across the bar. The mounting brackets have mounting holes that are a little larger than the bolts and have some play in it when unfastened. Again, there is some room for the brackets to theoretically "creep". The hinge point between the bracket and the bar is secured by an allen bolt - however, when unfastened, there is some play in the bar as well - hence another potential for creep, though less so than at the other points because there is a larger metal to metal contact area to hold the pieces together at this hinge.
I also managed to look at an S2000 that did had the stock airbox removed - what a lot of room there is! There is a chassis cross bar that is probably the largest cross brace you can imaged - about a 3"x3" cross section I beam! that connects the upper wishbone mounting points from left to right. Because of this, I don't think an upper strut bar is going to help much. Keep in mind that in most of the other Hondas, the upper wishbone is actually connected to the tower bars whereas on the S2000 (and the NSX), the upper wishbones are connected laterally to the chassis rails.
However, the cross brace should offer significant benefits because:
1) the 4 point mounting system allows the brace to have virtually no creep
2) it ties the lower wishbones' mounting points together and prevents diagonal movement of those points. Without the cross brace, the stock bracing does not prevent the points from moving diagonally. Imagine a rectangle - the length of the sides stay pretty constant because of the stock bracing. But the top and bottom sides of the rectangle can still move sideways relative to each other - the cross brace eliminates this movement.
Suggested cross brace improvements...
1) make it lighter - it only needs axial strength
2) make it more aerodynamic - the underside of cars contributes quite significantly to aerodynamics of a car - the current spoon bar really protrudes into the air flow under the car - by about 1+" - maybe a CF plate with a more aero leading edge may help - or aero shaped tubes and mounting points.
Anybody takers?
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Joined: Jan 2001
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From: Denver
My x-brace (custom designd by me) is one peice billet aluminium. I think it is lighter than the spoon, but I am not sure as I have never held the spoon brace. I am sure it is stronger as it is one peice and there are no welds I can make the aerodynamic changes you like and machine the brace to have a sharper leading and trailing edge to better cut through the air. This was not cheap to produce as it was cut entirely from a 1.5" thick peice of billet, but if you want one PM me and I will draw one up today.
Corection, it is not lighter than the Spoon, but I will do whatever possible to remove more weight.
[Edited by mdigrappa on 03-19-2001 at 08:24 AM]
Corection, it is not lighter than the Spoon, but I will do whatever possible to remove more weight.
[Edited by mdigrappa on 03-19-2001 at 08:24 AM]
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I'm going to throw my 2 cents in here! I would definately recommend the Spoon STB's over any other. I have them and I'm very impressed with the high quality of workmanship that's been put into these pieces. The fit is right on, made specifically for each individual application.
Make sure to polish them up after install with a good metal polish, Meguairs..Mothers. Pricey yes but worth evey penny!
Make sure to polish them up after install with a good metal polish, Meguairs..Mothers. Pricey yes but worth evey penny!
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From: HP
Taxi, I agree that a strut tower brace on an S2000 would provide little, if any, benefit (it will LOOK cool though). I was considering buying one until I saw that monster crossmember, and saw that the A arm mounts line right up with it. STBs are commonly found on Honda/Acura performance cars. I believe the Honda boys would have given the Stook one if it needed it.
However, from positive feedback on this forum, I'm convinced that a lower X brace is a good investment. That's where my next $200 is going.
However, from positive feedback on this forum, I'm convinced that a lower X brace is a good investment. That's where my next $200 is going.
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 9,210
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From: WA
Originally posted by Allan Haggai
I believe the Honda boys would have given the Stook one if it needed it.
I believe the Honda boys would have given the Stook one if it needed it.
The Spoon x-brace is extremely well designed, strong, and light.. and through MG and others it is not terribly expensive. I have not understood the motivation to build a different one, but each has to entertain themselves with some activity.
I have experimented by removing and installing the bars on my car and with the rough roads in my area, I would not want to do without either.
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"There's nothing like seeing an NSX in the rear view mirror trying to catch up"
Forgive me Darren, but some rebuttal comments are in order. Unless one refers to an NSX equipped with an automatic transmission, the word "nothing" (as in nil, nada, zero)would appear to reflect the accuracy of the above quote.
Once I became proficient in my launch technique, my 92 and 95 NSXs routinely turned 13.7s at 105.5-106 MPH. My 00 routinely turned (when stock) 13.2s at 109-110 MPH. These times are not unremarkable; one can access the NSX Prime website to view threads posting pictures, ET slips and descriptions of NSXs at the "strip". I would also suggest to those "unbelieving" S-2000 owners that they join in the various NSX Club of America organized "strip" and "track" events. One cannot overstate the importance of the driver in this equation.
I believe the S-2000 to be a superior roadster; for the money it is simply the closest thing extant to a Formula 1-like car for the street. Unless one is primarily concerned with the cache of owning a Porsche, I could not begin to justify the additional purchase cost of a Boxster versus the S-2000. The S-2000 seems so much more alive, exciting and responsive to driver inputs than any Boxster (including the S) I have driven.
However, just as the Boxster S (as good as it is) is no 911, so is the S-2000 (as good as it is) no NSX. To suggest otherwise is simply fraudulent.
Forgive me Darren, but some rebuttal comments are in order. Unless one refers to an NSX equipped with an automatic transmission, the word "nothing" (as in nil, nada, zero)would appear to reflect the accuracy of the above quote.
Once I became proficient in my launch technique, my 92 and 95 NSXs routinely turned 13.7s at 105.5-106 MPH. My 00 routinely turned (when stock) 13.2s at 109-110 MPH. These times are not unremarkable; one can access the NSX Prime website to view threads posting pictures, ET slips and descriptions of NSXs at the "strip". I would also suggest to those "unbelieving" S-2000 owners that they join in the various NSX Club of America organized "strip" and "track" events. One cannot overstate the importance of the driver in this equation.
I believe the S-2000 to be a superior roadster; for the money it is simply the closest thing extant to a Formula 1-like car for the street. Unless one is primarily concerned with the cache of owning a Porsche, I could not begin to justify the additional purchase cost of a Boxster versus the S-2000. The S-2000 seems so much more alive, exciting and responsive to driver inputs than any Boxster (including the S) I have driven.
However, just as the Boxster S (as good as it is) is no 911, so is the S-2000 (as good as it is) no NSX. To suggest otherwise is simply fraudulent.
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From: newport beach
I have the RM Racing STB. It's a beautiful piece of work, but it didn't add much rigidity to the structure. I then got the Spoon lower X brace. That made a very noticeable difference. STIFFER! Ended all low frequency resonances when rolling over the cobble stones in front of my house.
I paid $260 for the x brace (from jhk automagic long before MG Racing's group buy) and it was worth it. At $200 it's a total steal. Has my highest recommendation among all mods.
2x6spds
I paid $260 for the x brace (from jhk automagic long before MG Racing's group buy) and it was worth it. At $200 it's a total steal. Has my highest recommendation among all mods.
2x6spds
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From: newport beach
Thank you Allan. Yes, the birds. Now that I drive my first convertible when I stop at a light under overhead wires upon which are perched a resting flock of the diarhetic progeny of dinosaurs, I look up, watching for that tell-tale tensing of those feathered menaces, grimacing beaks or straining talons, ready to scoot to get out from under ...
Clearly, black is the best color for our S2000s, classy, menacing, understated. Silver is also beautiful, also understated, although rumor has it that silver is so understated no one sees you coming. Red, well some say that a sports car must be red, and the S2000 red is at least as good as Ferrari's, but to me, it's a f*ck me red, and says too much in the way of "hey look at me!!" no one will miss you in a yellow, sure that's true, and its growing on me, but where do you put the fare meter? I've only seen one white, and for some reason it looks like it should have a red cross on each door. Haven't seen any blues, but to me blue says, I just want to get along with all of you.
Yes, black is shiny, isn't it?
2x6spds
[Edited by 2x6spds on 03-21-2001 at 11:22 AM]
Clearly, black is the best color for our S2000s, classy, menacing, understated. Silver is also beautiful, also understated, although rumor has it that silver is so understated no one sees you coming. Red, well some say that a sports car must be red, and the S2000 red is at least as good as Ferrari's, but to me, it's a f*ck me red, and says too much in the way of "hey look at me!!" no one will miss you in a yellow, sure that's true, and its growing on me, but where do you put the fare meter? I've only seen one white, and for some reason it looks like it should have a red cross on each door. Haven't seen any blues, but to me blue says, I just want to get along with all of you.
Yes, black is shiny, isn't it?
2x6spds
[Edited by 2x6spds on 03-21-2001 at 11:22 AM]