When Greatness Is The Result (long)
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Thanks guys.
I don't think everyone on the board even though they own the car think as highly of it as I do. I am not saying they dislike the car or do not think it is good, . . . I think quite a few people view it just as a car, a good car but JUST a car.
My intent in this post was to stimulate a dialog about "greatness" as it applies to automobiles. A Chrysler K-Car is "Just a Car" (barely
), A Duesenberg is a "Great Car".
Greatness does not mean it has to be the most expensive or even the best available. The Ford Model T was a "Great Car". The Jaguar XKE is an example of a "Great Car" that was reasonably priced compared to other sports cars of it's era.
Sometimes all the planets align correctly, the right people work on the right design, for the right company at the right time and a great car is created.
I receive a lot of flack for my "anti-modifications" stance with regards to this car. The people who give me this flack generally are of the opinion that this is "Just a Car" and as such they will do with it what they want and to Hell with posterity.
Of course they are right because it is "Just a Car" TO THEM.
TO ME this car represents the imagination and brilliance of a very special group of engineers who work for a very special company. It is the fruit of their labor. It is the result of their genius. The purity of the design is stunning. It is automotive art. To tamper with it beyond being able to restore it back to original condition is a desecration IMHO.
For example: The engine was designed to be the ultimate evolution of the classic 4 cylinder sports car engine. Naturally asperated high revving high HP. If you believe as I do that a true sports car is as close to a race car as possible and still able to be streetable then the S2000 makes sense. Real race cars with 2 liter engines have narrow powerbands, high reving engines and a spartan interior. True sports cars in the classic sense were cars you could drive to the race track on any given sunday, tape the headlights, race then drive home at the end of the day. The S2000 is as close today as possible to such a car.
The S2000 engine is arguably the best 4 cylinder production engine ever produced. In the S2000 it is a perfectly ballanced package.
Now when people can't wait to turbocharge or supercharge this engine it makes me cringe. It goes against the whole design philosophy of the vehicle.
Just my opinion but for those of you on the fence whether to modify or not, you may want to consider it.
PS: For those of you who think I have not modified ANYTHING I have done the following:
RM Shock tower brace
RM Dead Pedal
RM Battery Hold down
RM Oil Cap
RM Injector Guard
Alpine speakers (Direct replacements)
Mobile 1 oil
All can be removed and the car can be restored to original condition in a couple of hours.
I don't think everyone on the board even though they own the car think as highly of it as I do. I am not saying they dislike the car or do not think it is good, . . . I think quite a few people view it just as a car, a good car but JUST a car.
My intent in this post was to stimulate a dialog about "greatness" as it applies to automobiles. A Chrysler K-Car is "Just a Car" (barely
), A Duesenberg is a "Great Car".Greatness does not mean it has to be the most expensive or even the best available. The Ford Model T was a "Great Car". The Jaguar XKE is an example of a "Great Car" that was reasonably priced compared to other sports cars of it's era.
Sometimes all the planets align correctly, the right people work on the right design, for the right company at the right time and a great car is created.
I receive a lot of flack for my "anti-modifications" stance with regards to this car. The people who give me this flack generally are of the opinion that this is "Just a Car" and as such they will do with it what they want and to Hell with posterity.
Of course they are right because it is "Just a Car" TO THEM.
TO ME this car represents the imagination and brilliance of a very special group of engineers who work for a very special company. It is the fruit of their labor. It is the result of their genius. The purity of the design is stunning. It is automotive art. To tamper with it beyond being able to restore it back to original condition is a desecration IMHO.
For example: The engine was designed to be the ultimate evolution of the classic 4 cylinder sports car engine. Naturally asperated high revving high HP. If you believe as I do that a true sports car is as close to a race car as possible and still able to be streetable then the S2000 makes sense. Real race cars with 2 liter engines have narrow powerbands, high reving engines and a spartan interior. True sports cars in the classic sense were cars you could drive to the race track on any given sunday, tape the headlights, race then drive home at the end of the day. The S2000 is as close today as possible to such a car.
The S2000 engine is arguably the best 4 cylinder production engine ever produced. In the S2000 it is a perfectly ballanced package.
Now when people can't wait to turbocharge or supercharge this engine it makes me cringe. It goes against the whole design philosophy of the vehicle.
Just my opinion but for those of you on the fence whether to modify or not, you may want to consider it.
PS: For those of you who think I have not modified ANYTHING I have done the following:
RM Shock tower brace
RM Dead Pedal
RM Battery Hold down
RM Oil Cap
RM Injector Guard
Alpine speakers (Direct replacements)
Mobile 1 oil
All can be removed and the car can be restored to original condition in a couple of hours.
Former Moderator
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,826
Likes: 5
From: Denver CO
Bieg,
I think you are jumping to conclusions. I think most of us who jump on you about your stance regarding modifying the car do think it's a great car. I know I do. Even a great car can be improved.
I think you are jumping to conclusions. I think most of us who jump on you about your stance regarding modifying the car do think it's a great car. I know I do. Even a great car can be improved.
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 657
Likes: 0
From: Camarillo
Beig, you are not alone. This is more than a car to me. I plan on keeping it forever. It brought back memories of my Dad's Porsche 1600, my brothers 260Z and RX-7, and much more. I still stand in my garage and just look at it (even after a year of "just" looking at it).
The roadster is a classic layout for a car. It
The roadster is a classic layout for a car. It
Former Moderator
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 16,175
Likes: 0
From: Erock is da shizzle
I agree excellent post. It make me ponder the difference between what's considered an exotic and whats "just a car" . as you mentioned Honda is right up there with the best in all forms of racing. They have dominated F1 and Indy and are unbeatable in motorcycle racing. Thier level of workmanship is beyond reproach. So what makes and "exotic" that intangebable that would have us go crazy for Porsche's and Ferrari's and the like. One writer said ( and it always stuck with me) "this car (Ferrari) has shortcummings that you wouldn't excuse in a $15k Honda...yet you'd trade your mother for one." I persoanlly think of the S2K in this regard but its NOT an exotic. Why?
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,670
Likes: 0
From: Santa Monica, CA
I must agree, and I don't even have my car yet! I was sold on this car before I ever sat in one, and even after hearing the comments such as: not enough torque, uncomfortable ride, too noisy, etc. After I finally got a ride in one 2 weeks ago, all I can say is I cannot wait to go home during Thanksgiving and be thankful that at such a young age I can enjoy this car for years. It truly is a special car, and one I plan on holding onto for my lifetime.
Jay
Jay
Former Sponsor
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 7,049
Likes: 1
From: Timonium
A very well written and argued post, Bieg. You obviously gave this much time and thought and I very much appreciate the effort. It was joy to read! And I agree with most of what you said, too.
Banned
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,263
Likes: 1
From: On the lakefront...
I agree with you in most ways, Bieg. The S2000 is a truly special automobile and I am elated to drive it, own it...love it...it's truly a cut above.
I modify my S2000 not because I question the design philosphy of Honda's expert development team, I think they have created a near perfect car for me. I have modified my car because I like to tinker. I'm not questioning Honda or saying that what they have done isn't good enough. I like putting my stamp on things. It's not any more complicated than that, for me at least.
I do have a couple of issues with the car, however. Mainly having to do with the interior. Rick's console cover will cover one of my biggest complaints. But the engine is magnificent, the handling is outstanding and the looks are drop dead sexy. And even with what I consider the perfect car for me, there is a small margin for improvement. I have put the HKS exhaust on (still have the stocker), Comptech strut tower bar, MB Quart components in the doors, clear side markers, Dennis' front grill cover (which I think looks awesome!) and a few other minor mods.
I would just say that it's not as clear cut as you say it is. People who mod their cars are not calling into question Honda's design imperitive, they are simply making their car their own. Yes, it's just a car, a special, beautiful and fantastic car. An enduring classic? I sure hope so, but only time will tell for sure...
I modify my S2000 not because I question the design philosphy of Honda's expert development team, I think they have created a near perfect car for me. I have modified my car because I like to tinker. I'm not questioning Honda or saying that what they have done isn't good enough. I like putting my stamp on things. It's not any more complicated than that, for me at least.
I do have a couple of issues with the car, however. Mainly having to do with the interior. Rick's console cover will cover one of my biggest complaints. But the engine is magnificent, the handling is outstanding and the looks are drop dead sexy. And even with what I consider the perfect car for me, there is a small margin for improvement. I have put the HKS exhaust on (still have the stocker), Comptech strut tower bar, MB Quart components in the doors, clear side markers, Dennis' front grill cover (which I think looks awesome!) and a few other minor mods.
I would just say that it's not as clear cut as you say it is. People who mod their cars are not calling into question Honda's design imperitive, they are simply making their car their own. Yes, it's just a car, a special, beautiful and fantastic car. An enduring classic? I sure hope so, but only time will tell for sure...
