Why "toe out" at the rears of the S2000?
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From: Chicago
Just because the car came from the factory that way doesn't mean that's what it's supposed to be. Your car could have been assembled on a Friday 
This happened with the new Celica. All the owners I have talked to said the car was mis-aligned from the factory. Once the car is aligned to the specs in the manual everything is fine.
This happened with the new Celica. All the owners I have talked to said the car was mis-aligned from the factory. Once the car is aligned to the specs in the manual everything is fine.
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From: Phoenix
This is true (Re. the Celica). I only managed about 18k miles on my set. Hit to wear bars on the fronts, but was at the cords on the inside LF and outside RF tires. If it happened to my Celica, it could happen to you..
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From: San Diego
I've seen several posts on this forum about S2ks that were out of alignment as received from the factory. That would seem to be the case here--your friends apparently just got a bad run??
cal
cal
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From: SoCal
Originally posted by DavidM
These allignemt people are race pros .... not just some 'backyard' joint. They allign cars for a lot of people who do serious track work so suggesting that 'they' don't know how to read their own equipment or that they have their machine out of calibration seems to be a bit far fetched.
Also, I'll give you another 'sign' that the car has 'toe-out' setup. All the people commenting on the INSIDE of the tyres getting worn - that could be negative camber but it also could be toe-out. The front of the S2000 has very minimal negative camber .... it has somewhere between 0 and -0.5 degrees (mine had -0.1 and -.2 at the front). That is about as minimal negative camber as you can have on a car ... certainly not enough to cauae more wear on the inside than outside. So toe-out is next likely candidate for causing inside tyrewear. From what I see of the measured specs in front of me, it's the toe-out that's causeing the inside tyre-wear and not the camber. That is at the front, the back on the cars seems to have -1.0 - -1.3 camber out of the factory.
These allignemt people are race pros .... not just some 'backyard' joint. They allign cars for a lot of people who do serious track work so suggesting that 'they' don't know how to read their own equipment or that they have their machine out of calibration seems to be a bit far fetched.
Also, I'll give you another 'sign' that the car has 'toe-out' setup. All the people commenting on the INSIDE of the tyres getting worn - that could be negative camber but it also could be toe-out. The front of the S2000 has very minimal negative camber .... it has somewhere between 0 and -0.5 degrees (mine had -0.1 and -.2 at the front). That is about as minimal negative camber as you can have on a car ... certainly not enough to cauae more wear on the inside than outside. So toe-out is next likely candidate for causing inside tyrewear. From what I see of the measured specs in front of me, it's the toe-out that's causeing the inside tyre-wear and not the camber. That is at the front, the back on the cars seems to have -1.0 - -1.3 camber out of the factory.
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From: San Diego
Originally posted by Sev
Maybe it is an issue with the australian cars...
Maybe it is an issue with the australian cars...
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From: Isle of Man
Doesn't the flex in the suspension change everything anyway? The alignment is a static adjustment, not dynamic based on what the car does as it corners, etc so is just a compromise setting. I may be wrong, but the setting on an alignment jig would only be the setting on the road if no weight was added to the car and it was travelling on a smooth flat road in a straight line.
As for more tyre(tire) wear on the inside, isn't that inevitable as the inside of the wheel 'slips' in a corner compared to the outside, which has further to travel? The more it slips, the hotter it gets and the more it wears? Maybe, I'm out of my depth here, so I'll say no more.
As for more tyre(tire) wear on the inside, isn't that inevitable as the inside of the wheel 'slips' in a corner compared to the outside, which has further to travel? The more it slips, the hotter it gets and the more it wears? Maybe, I'm out of my depth here, so I'll say no more.
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From: Melbourne
I don't really care what the factory specs say the allignment should be - what I'm concerned about is the way the car is actually alligned.
My car was alligned with 'toe-out' and so are the other two S2000's that I'm refering to - btw, this is 100% of all S2000s that I have actually seen the reading from. I had my car re-alligned from 'toe-out' to 'toe-in' but it's too early to comment on the behaviour of the car - I did go for a 'test run' last night and the back of the car felt more stuck to the road than I remember - actually I did not manage to throw it out once which before was a common occurance.
Also, how do you explain the wear on the inside of front tyres on all S2000s concidering that the front has minimal negative camber?
Anyway, chose what you want to do with this information - believe it or disbelieve it, get your own car checked or not - just remember that all the S2000s that I've come accross so far have 'toe out'.
My car was alligned with 'toe-out' and so are the other two S2000's that I'm refering to - btw, this is 100% of all S2000s that I have actually seen the reading from. I had my car re-alligned from 'toe-out' to 'toe-in' but it's too early to comment on the behaviour of the car - I did go for a 'test run' last night and the back of the car felt more stuck to the road than I remember - actually I did not manage to throw it out once which before was a common occurance.
Also, how do you explain the wear on the inside of front tyres on all S2000s concidering that the front has minimal negative camber?
Anyway, chose what you want to do with this information - believe it or disbelieve it, get your own car checked or not - just remember that all the S2000s that I've come accross so far have 'toe out'.
Joined: Oct 2000
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From: Redmond, WA
OK, maybe I understand WTF is going on here, maybe I don't, but we've got some serious communication problems by all.
After all that (see above), did we agree the rear "SHOULD" be toe-in, or not?
Are the allegations that some seem to think the cars have been delivered out of spec? If so, who gives a flying f^<&, go get it aligned (by Mr. race ready or whoever, it ain't rocket science)!
Are we arguing specs or build quality here?
Lets get this point straight before someone freaks out (besides me)
WTF is wrong with you guys?
After all that (see above), did we agree the rear "SHOULD" be toe-in, or not?
Are the allegations that some seem to think the cars have been delivered out of spec? If so, who gives a flying f^<&, go get it aligned (by Mr. race ready or whoever, it ain't rocket science)!
Are we arguing specs or build quality here?
Lets get this point straight before someone freaks out (besides me)
WTF is wrong with you guys?
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Good advise, DavidM. Checking the alignment is a must. Especially with our S2K, whose stiff chassis amplifies the effects of miniscule alignment and suspension changes.
Anyway, the S2000 does have a toe-in setting from the factory. I suspect that these wrong alignment settings are caused by the spring spacers during shipping. I believe shippers, secure the cars with chains to their carriers. This compresses the springs and suspension that could lead to misalignments and even worse bent suspension components. Especially when kept under extreme pressure for extended periods. I would venture to speculate that all those S2000s in that shop where delivered by the same shipper, thus the uniformity of the errors.
Anyway, the S2000 does have a toe-in setting from the factory. I suspect that these wrong alignment settings are caused by the spring spacers during shipping. I believe shippers, secure the cars with chains to their carriers. This compresses the springs and suspension that could lead to misalignments and even worse bent suspension components. Especially when kept under extreme pressure for extended periods. I would venture to speculate that all those S2000s in that shop where delivered by the same shipper, thus the uniformity of the errors.