Another famous engine KNOCK
06-06-2006, 07:47 PM
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Another famous engine KNOCK
So i spent about 2 hrs reading through post's about engine knocking and i have mixed feelings between a thrown rod, valves and nothing.
02, 59K only mod is a cold air intake.
I noticed a knocking sound coming from the engine. Not during idle and not at a specific rpm. Definetly at rpm above 3000. its not rythmic and it not really loud either. it took my buddy 3-4 minutes to pick it out of the normal valvetrain noise.
it sound literally like knocking. not ticking and not a bad knock like i've heard on some videos. It also seems like i can feel it throughout the engine bay. Like on the installed sway bar. If i had to identify where it came from i'd say somewhere towards the driver side, and not really out of the top of the engine, more out of the inside somehow.
So we took off the valve cover and everything looked normal. I guess normal wear on everything. No debries, scratches or anything.
After driving for about a hour, normal traffic, no vtec i checked for the noise again and it was still only during rpm above i'd say 3000. But it was way more constant. Before it was like a on and off, you'd kinda loose the sound and have to rev back up and down to catch it, but now it was easier to create it. I could hold it at the rpm when the noise started and then hear it the entire time. Still not rythmic at all, more of a random knock. tap....tap.tap.tap.tap..........tap.tap..........t ap......tap.tap.tap
would the timing chain tensioner cause a knock?
Sorry, i wrote a lot, but i tried to be a specific as possible. I just bought the S 3 months ago, put about 3k miles on it. Not a hard driver, check my oil every time i fill up gas, am using full syntethic mobil 1 extended performance 5w-30. average temps here are about 85F and humid.
I use premium fuel and i'm running bosch super4 plugs. So i think i covered everything lol, any tips or advice before i drive it to the idiot honda dealer. Sorry, but i don't trust that place, they're know to try and rip of military.
02, 59K only mod is a cold air intake.
I noticed a knocking sound coming from the engine. Not during idle and not at a specific rpm. Definetly at rpm above 3000. its not rythmic and it not really loud either. it took my buddy 3-4 minutes to pick it out of the normal valvetrain noise.
it sound literally like knocking. not ticking and not a bad knock like i've heard on some videos. It also seems like i can feel it throughout the engine bay. Like on the installed sway bar. If i had to identify where it came from i'd say somewhere towards the driver side, and not really out of the top of the engine, more out of the inside somehow.
So we took off the valve cover and everything looked normal. I guess normal wear on everything. No debries, scratches or anything.
After driving for about a hour, normal traffic, no vtec i checked for the noise again and it was still only during rpm above i'd say 3000. But it was way more constant. Before it was like a on and off, you'd kinda loose the sound and have to rev back up and down to catch it, but now it was easier to create it. I could hold it at the rpm when the noise started and then hear it the entire time. Still not rythmic at all, more of a random knock. tap....tap.tap.tap.tap..........tap.tap..........t ap......tap.tap.tap
would the timing chain tensioner cause a knock?
Sorry, i wrote a lot, but i tried to be a specific as possible. I just bought the S 3 months ago, put about 3k miles on it. Not a hard driver, check my oil every time i fill up gas, am using full syntethic mobil 1 extended performance 5w-30. average temps here are about 85F and humid.
I use premium fuel and i'm running bosch super4 plugs. So i think i covered everything lol, any tips or advice before i drive it to the idiot honda dealer. Sorry, but i don't trust that place, they're know to try and rip of military.
06-06-2006, 08:02 PM
#2
The timing chain tensioner is worth investigating, although you say that it is only evident above 3000 rpm. If you can get a hold of a mechanic's stethoscope, try listening to the tensioner as you rev the engine up in neutral. Tensioner can make a more apparent sound when the engine is speeding up. I suppose it could be a "knock" as each of us would have a different idea of what a knock would be.
You could also have a bad belt tensioner and you should be able to detect this the same way as I indicated for the t. chain tensioner.
There is a remote chance you could have a small exhaust leak in the header. I've heard one of these and it can sound like a knock, also.
You could also have a real engine "knock" like when you lug the engine. It's doubtful this could happen above 3000 rpm unless you were in a high gear and giving fairly heavy throttle and your knock sensor wasn't doing its job rigtht.
As a side note (and I doubt this would have a significant bearing on the situation but you just never know) .............................................
With your temps you might be better advised to go with 10W30 oil. A 5W30 synthetic might be a bit on the thin side for 85 degree weather. This "might" amplify any odd sounds there may be.
I've seen posted here on a couple of occasions that those who have used the 4 electrode type of plugs have encountered issues. They don't always work so well in this engine. You might consider taking them out and "reading" them to see if this may be a cause of the knocking.
You could also have a bad belt tensioner and you should be able to detect this the same way as I indicated for the t. chain tensioner.
There is a remote chance you could have a small exhaust leak in the header. I've heard one of these and it can sound like a knock, also.
You could also have a real engine "knock" like when you lug the engine. It's doubtful this could happen above 3000 rpm unless you were in a high gear and giving fairly heavy throttle and your knock sensor wasn't doing its job rigtht.
As a side note (and I doubt this would have a significant bearing on the situation but you just never know) .............................................
With your temps you might be better advised to go with 10W30 oil. A 5W30 synthetic might be a bit on the thin side for 85 degree weather. This "might" amplify any odd sounds there may be.
I've seen posted here on a couple of occasions that those who have used the 4 electrode type of plugs have encountered issues. They don't always work so well in this engine. You might consider taking them out and "reading" them to see if this may be a cause of the knocking.
06-07-2006, 02:44 AM
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I'm helping another S driver change his oil today, and although my oil is only about 1k miles old, i'm going to change it to some 10w-30 and see if i can get ahold of some ngk plugs. Whats your opinion on Lucas Oil stabilizer instead of changing the oil completely??
Also maybe they have a mechanic's stethoscope at the shop i can borrow.
I wouldnt pinpoint the noise occuring above 3k rpm as i am standing in front and can't really judge what rpm i'm at, but it defenitly never happens at idle, and it's not the typical -when you accelerate or let of the gas knock. It occurs at different rpms.I can slowly raise the rpm until i hear it, and then hold it at that rpm and listen.
oh and i noticed that i could hear the exhaust "bubble" synchron with the knock. little tiny missfires i'd say. And i'm not sure if it's just being paranoid, but it seems like it's a little hesitant at accelerating.
Damnit, i'm going on leave in 2 weeks and just had to buy a freakin $800 ticket. Dealer consult is just not in the wallet at this time.... f....
Also maybe they have a mechanic's stethoscope at the shop i can borrow.
I wouldnt pinpoint the noise occuring above 3k rpm as i am standing in front and can't really judge what rpm i'm at, but it defenitly never happens at idle, and it's not the typical -when you accelerate or let of the gas knock. It occurs at different rpms.I can slowly raise the rpm until i hear it, and then hold it at that rpm and listen.
oh and i noticed that i could hear the exhaust "bubble" synchron with the knock. little tiny missfires i'd say. And i'm not sure if it's just being paranoid, but it seems like it's a little hesitant at accelerating. Damnit, i'm going on leave in 2 weeks and just had to buy a freakin $800 ticket. Dealer consult is just not in the wallet at this time.... f....
06-07-2006, 02:17 PM
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does sound like you are describing detonation, i can assure you no "knocking" ive ever heard is a tapping sound, more like a faint metal on metal sound or sand paper movied along metal slowly. Id suggest, tensioner, check vavle adjustment/ retainers, oil level and weight. I had a whine noise (like a blower whine) in my k20 when i would rev. i used a stethoscope to try and pinpoint the noise w/ no sucess. Turned out it was my oil pump...... good luck to you though!
06-08-2006, 05:52 PM
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changed the spark plugs to ngk 7406's change my 5w-30 mobil 1 extended performance to valvoline maxlife syntec 10w-30 and wow. valvetrain noise reduced by like 50%. no more bubbling at the exhaust and knocking seems gone also.Thanks guys.
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06-09-2006, 09:50 AM
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Maintenance was done correctly. Maybe not enough research. I am a ex-vw and bmw driver and was very satisfied with Bosch Super4 plugs in thoose vehicles. And therefore selected them for my S. After joining this site, i did some research and noticed that not only i had problems with 'em. And I think the manual called for the 5w-30 oil.
So thanks to s2ki, for getting me on the right track.
06-10-2006, 04:46 AM
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i have the same exact knock at 3000- around 3200 it goes away right? i took it to honda and the guy said it was a "normal drivetrain noise" but soon as i get back to the us (17 days HAHA) i am going to go to pfi speed over in ft. collins and have those cats listen to it. if you find out what it is please let us know! btw i have 01 with 46k