well does anyone know the differences between Mingsters, Spoon, and Ricks?

 

I have the Spoon X-brace and immediately noticed the difference in the "feel" of the car. It just felt like there was a better turn-in response. I love it and think that its the best mod yet. The SPOON rear lower tie-bar has no effect whatsoever. I would not get the rear tie-bar if I had to do it over again.

Looking at Rick's X-brace(MdiGrappa developed), it is constructed from a single piece of metal and does not have any welds in it like the other braces. It also looks like it doesn't get in the way of doing your own oil changes. The SPOON gets dripped on, but is easily cleaned with a rag.

I'm not too familiar with Mingsters x-brace so maybe someone else can shed some light on his products.

Overall, I would sincerely doubt that anybody could feel the difference betweent the SPOON and Rick's X-brace. However, I could be wrong.

 

Any of the three should make a definite difference is the front end stiffness. Spoon came out first and is pretty high priced for what it is. Import Developement came out next and he "improved" on the design. While Spoon uses 1/4" extruded steel tubing, Mingster (i.e. I.D.) went to 3/8" for improved stiffness. He sacrificed a bit of weight for extra rigidity (you make the call), his appears to be somewhat stiffer. Enter a "kid" named Mark DiGrappa who is building a firebreathing stook in a cost no object fashion. One of his additions is the brace which he has kindly offered to folks here through Rick's (he goes through Rick's due to some sponsorship regulations here on the board). Personally I run the DiGrappa Brace and love it's looks and performance. More people then you might imagine will crawl under the car then you when you mention the aftermarket engineering masterpiece that lives there. In short...just get one! Cost no object DiGrappa, cost object...Mingster,.....and if you like to pay for a name it would be Spoon. I might also note that Import Developement is a Spoon Distributer and can provide either of these options. For any model watch the Group Buys and For Sale Thread as these units are offered there at a break.

Utah

 

I agree, I think all would provide the same improvement, though I only have tried the Spoon version.

I'm glad "improved" is in quotes... My take on the "development" of the Mingster brace was that it was a cheaper copy of the Spoon brace, and it was made out of 3/8" tubing for availability reasons only. So yes, it is heavier. When the additional weight was discovered Mingster jokingly said it was "stronger". This "strength" now seems to be a selling point, but I am not aware of any "strength" tests on any of the x-braces. Did you actually do some comparisons? Since the benefit probably comes from stabilization on the longitudinal axis of the x-brace arms, a wooden brace might give enough strength! A true improvement might have been to use LESS steel and lighter weight to accomplish the same benefit.

So can we just say the Mingster version is "heavier". I think its best selling point is that it costs less.

Botom line is all versions should give you a similar benefit, so you can choose name, cost, appearance, ability to catch oil or...weight in making a buying decision. Good luck!

 

Actually Richard looked at the 3/8" tube due some very technical analysis performed on the chassis, and not availability. Both sizes are readily available. I had run the displacement numbers using 4 Kistler Piezo Electric Displacement Transducers run through a charge amp to measure flexture at 1 Hz.(hoping to develope my own X-Brace). While I did not run an instrumented Spoon, a Von Meiss stress analysis was run and indicated that 1/4" tubing they used, based on actual recorded chassis flexture, would not eliminate all (or most) of the flexture in the 3 axis in question. Richard asked my opinion in several areas and I gave them as I already had the data in hand. This same data was shared with Mr. DiGrappa in the developement of his X-Brace. Once again any of the braces provide value; but if you post you should know what your talking about.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Utah S2K
[B]Actually Richard looked at the 3/8" tube due some very technical analysis performed on the chassis, and not availability. Both sizes are readily available.

 

I take exception to some of the apparent "bashing" of small vendors that seems to consistently take place in this group.

I would suggest that the next time anyone starts to criticize a small vendor's efforts that they take a moment and ask themselves a few questions.
1. Do you think the vendor is trying to take advantage of you?
2. Do you understand what the vendor has done in the past?
3. Do you think it's easy to meet the high expectations of our group?
3. Could you do better?

I appreciate the efforts of Mingster, Rick, Mark and others. They have worked hard to produce products to make our car better. It is not easy to meet the high expectations of a group such as ours but these guys are making it happen.

SS2000
Chet

 

I completely agree. There seems to be the mentality on this board that big name JDM tuners == better than anything produced in North America.

This simply isn't true. While we may not make the world's best cars, the tuning industry and level of expertise is world class, bar none.

The amount of research that has gone into the DiGrappa and Mingster bars is substantial. I spoke with UtahS2k last night about his deformation tests.

Did you know that without a cross brace, around a hard hairpin turn, there is nearly one half inch of movement between the 4 mounting points?

The Spoon and Mingster brace reduce this to just about 0.25" deformation, while the DiGrappa brace reduces movement to a remarkable 1/8".

This is impressive. There are many other impressive products from the small vendors on this board. To not have an open mind towards them is your own (and your S2000's) loss.

 

Here's another link to help you out:

https://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?...ighlight=xbrace

And trust me 3/8's is stronger. No need to ask Mingster....I'll tell you is are MUCH cheaper and stronger. As for weight? Tell the fat chick next to you to go on a diet!!!

Love to here from you again on this subject.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by LATEOTT
[B]

 

Just thought I'd save you the trouble of checking out the link.....



07-14-2001 11:14 AM

Utah S2K
4th Gear

Member Since: Dec 2000
Status: Owner
Location: Ogden Utah US
Posts: 1827
I believe Spoons uses 1/4" inch extrusion while Richard went to the 3/8" extrusion......which is why it is a little heavier (correct me if I'm wrong Rich). The extra thickness should make it stiffer.


__________________
'01 S/N: 845
Silver/Black
Her name is "Electra"
Support VYTA Racing


Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged


07-14-2001 12:37 PM

mingster
5th Gear

Member Since: Oct 2000
Status: Enthusiast
Location: SoCal US
Posts: 3536

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Utah S2K
I believe Spoons uses 1/4" inch extrusion while Richard went to the 3/8" extrusion......which is why it is a little heavier (correct me if I'm wrong Rich). The extra thickness should make it stiffer.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



that's exactly right. the thickness of the material is different.