Bulletproof Driveline Idea
Vision: S2000 turbo capable of mid-low 11 sec quarter miles at 125+ MPH, daily drivable and reliable, fun at autocross. Handle 275 series drag radials + grippy 5000 RPM launches and sub 1.8 sec 60 foot times like it was no big deal.
Challenges: Need to beef everything behind the flywheel.
1 - Weak transmission, no known / financially feasible rebuilders. The Aussie $8,000 dog-box transmission... can't justify it.
2 - Weak differential, but two proven options (PuddyDad Honda Diff or Inline Pro R200 Kit)
Solution: Laskey 420RWHP/290 lb/ft powerplant is now proven combo & flexible. Assuming either diff solution of 2 above, the idea is a Tremec TKO 600 transmission swap.
Approach:
Having driven a Tremec TKO 600 which easily handles the 560 HP / 490 lb/ft of torque in my '69 Camaro (TKOs are good for 600 lb/ft), I'm considering the following and curious if any other nutjobs like me have tried the same.
1 - Saw off the existing bellhousing such that when your machine shop welds a thick/strong mounting plate to the newly sawed-off end, you can bolt a Tremec TKO 600 trans to it. Everything would have to be triple-checked and aligned in all dimensions / runout / etc.
2 - Get the input shaft from the TKO 600 machined down to accommodate the S2K's clutch disc, or find a way to get the old S2000 trans's input shaft adapted to the TKO 600 instead. Again, ensure the spline counts and lengths, pilot bearing, shaft length, etc. are identical in orientation to the prior S2000 trans setup.
3 - TKO 600 has 3 different shifter locations possible; looks like the rearmost would match the factory trans's bellhousing-to-shifter distance. Has anyone measured yet?
4 - Planning to call Tremec dealers tomorrow to see if there are any issues with spinning the trans to 9500 RPM. Sure, it has more "just about right" (total overkill) torque capacity
but I'm also trying to take into account any resonances or quirks that happen in a trans that spins the shafts that fast. Possible synchro glitches? In my Z/28, I've run it to 7500 RPM with no problems shifting gears briskly (yes, full roller cam, forged H-beam, forged crank, etc. bozoproof setup).
5 - No doubt I'll have to get a custom aluminum driveshaft to make the other side work out properly, connecting to either a PuddyDad 4.77 diff, or a built R200 setup from InlinePro.
6 - Gear ratios with the TKO 600's 2.87 first gear - 0.64 OD gear setup are reasonably close to the AP1 + 4.10 diff setup. Possibly a little more MPH in the top of second for autocrossing, which seems to help torque-rich C5s/C6s shift less. My 5000 RPM - 9200 RPM torque plateau should handle the gear splits just fine. TKO's 4th with the 4.77s ~ AP1/4.10's 5th which had me through the 1/4 mile lights in the fat of the powerband at 123 MPH.
7 - Anyone compared the outside dimensions (width, height) as you move from bellhousing through output shaft? Want to ensure I don't have any issues requiring transmission tunnel "adjustment."
8 - Trans mount would need to be fabricated.
9 - If I wanted to get really nutty, we could go with a dual diaphragm clutch disc setup. Might be cheaper than trying to get the input shaft.
Drawbacks:
Yes, it's a 5 speed "downgrade" but the reliability improvement & parts interchangeability (TKO 600s go for $1500 new) is pretty compelling.
So come on with the ideas. Can you imagine a S2000 you could abuse like that? Take to Pro Solo events and drag strips without cringing? Built C6 Z06 in the next lane getting you down? Swap the GT3076 for a GT35 (adding 80 RWHP) and knock on 130 MPH for trap speeds.
Thanks,
Stanford
Challenges: Need to beef everything behind the flywheel.
1 - Weak transmission, no known / financially feasible rebuilders. The Aussie $8,000 dog-box transmission... can't justify it.
2 - Weak differential, but two proven options (PuddyDad Honda Diff or Inline Pro R200 Kit)
Solution: Laskey 420RWHP/290 lb/ft powerplant is now proven combo & flexible. Assuming either diff solution of 2 above, the idea is a Tremec TKO 600 transmission swap.
Approach:
Having driven a Tremec TKO 600 which easily handles the 560 HP / 490 lb/ft of torque in my '69 Camaro (TKOs are good for 600 lb/ft), I'm considering the following and curious if any other nutjobs like me have tried the same.
1 - Saw off the existing bellhousing such that when your machine shop welds a thick/strong mounting plate to the newly sawed-off end, you can bolt a Tremec TKO 600 trans to it. Everything would have to be triple-checked and aligned in all dimensions / runout / etc.
2 - Get the input shaft from the TKO 600 machined down to accommodate the S2K's clutch disc, or find a way to get the old S2000 trans's input shaft adapted to the TKO 600 instead. Again, ensure the spline counts and lengths, pilot bearing, shaft length, etc. are identical in orientation to the prior S2000 trans setup.
3 - TKO 600 has 3 different shifter locations possible; looks like the rearmost would match the factory trans's bellhousing-to-shifter distance. Has anyone measured yet?
4 - Planning to call Tremec dealers tomorrow to see if there are any issues with spinning the trans to 9500 RPM. Sure, it has more "just about right" (total overkill) torque capacity
but I'm also trying to take into account any resonances or quirks that happen in a trans that spins the shafts that fast. Possible synchro glitches? In my Z/28, I've run it to 7500 RPM with no problems shifting gears briskly (yes, full roller cam, forged H-beam, forged crank, etc. bozoproof setup). 5 - No doubt I'll have to get a custom aluminum driveshaft to make the other side work out properly, connecting to either a PuddyDad 4.77 diff, or a built R200 setup from InlinePro.
6 - Gear ratios with the TKO 600's 2.87 first gear - 0.64 OD gear setup are reasonably close to the AP1 + 4.10 diff setup. Possibly a little more MPH in the top of second for autocrossing, which seems to help torque-rich C5s/C6s shift less. My 5000 RPM - 9200 RPM torque plateau should handle the gear splits just fine. TKO's 4th with the 4.77s ~ AP1/4.10's 5th which had me through the 1/4 mile lights in the fat of the powerband at 123 MPH.
7 - Anyone compared the outside dimensions (width, height) as you move from bellhousing through output shaft? Want to ensure I don't have any issues requiring transmission tunnel "adjustment."
8 - Trans mount would need to be fabricated.
9 - If I wanted to get really nutty, we could go with a dual diaphragm clutch disc setup. Might be cheaper than trying to get the input shaft.
Drawbacks:
Yes, it's a 5 speed "downgrade" but the reliability improvement & parts interchangeability (TKO 600s go for $1500 new) is pretty compelling.
So come on with the ideas. Can you imagine a S2000 you could abuse like that? Take to Pro Solo events and drag strips without cringing? Built C6 Z06 in the next lane getting you down? Swap the GT3076 for a GT35 (adding 80 RWHP) and knock on 130 MPH for trap speeds.
Thanks,
Stanford
That's a killer idea. I would worry about possibly creating a weak spot between the bellhousing and tranny housing. You might be better off with an adapter plate style setup on the bellhousing. The input shaft is another issue though. You get into the driveshaft length, tranny length, etc. etc.
Am I the only one who thinks this isnt the brightest of ideas? Might as well drop a 350 in it too, plenty of room...
And since when is the tranny weak? Yeah if your trying to put 500+ hp to the wheels. Besides there are other options to reinforce the stock tranny besides dog teeth gears.
And since when is the tranny weak? Yeah if your trying to put 500+ hp to the wheels. Besides there are other options to reinforce the stock tranny besides dog teeth gears.
Originally Posted by S2Kage,May 23 2008, 02:45 AM
Am I the only one who thinks this isnt the brightest of ideas? Might as well drop a 350 in it too, plenty of room...
And since when is the tranny weak? Yeah if your trying to put 500+ hp to the wheels. Besides there are other options to reinforce the stock tranny besides dog teeth gears.
And since when is the tranny weak? Yeah if your trying to put 500+ hp to the wheels. Besides there are other options to reinforce the stock tranny besides dog teeth gears.
I can see for extreme drag racing it being a good idea. But why would you want to get rid of a GREAT transmission in all other areas. I have driven lots of manual transmissions and if I could , I would swap the S2000 tranny in to any of them. J's Racing clutch and Flywheel with ATS 1.5 Way carbon LSD, J's 4:30FD and comtech housing has seemed to hold up fine. I am now boosted so as soon as the car is done and dynoed we will see how everything holds up. Since Im running a GT3076R with a .82AR turbine housing from Tial spool up should be great. 450whp Solid midrange should make for a great car with all the top end I need. I think its more or less Shock that the driver gives the car that is breaking things. Drag Racing
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