As of now, this is an issue only with the AP1 (2003 and older)

 

So has ANYONE encountered an AP2 2.2L motor yet that had cracked retainers? If I am understanding you correctly about your assumptions on the AP2 retainer improvements, you believe that the exhaust valves should make piston contact at around the same point the intake valves would break?

That being so Billman, do you recommend AP2 owners do retainer inspections as well? I've never done mine before, but would like to learn. I'm going to pull my valve cover next oil change (sometime this week) and see if I can see them.

 

No.

Cracked retainers will happen first. Bent ex valves will happen second, at a higher rpm.

AP2 cars have an extra 1000 rpm insurance. If you mis shift and hit 9k, it won't hurt anything. I think this is the entire reason for the 2.2L. The redline was lowered to a safe level, and the .2 was added to make up for the lost power.

Bottom line, I'd be amazed if a 2.2 ever broke a retainer.

 

Thanks Billman, I realize it has 1000 rpm extra insurance, but I meant more along the lines of a 3-2 shift when trying to go 3-4 or something like that, that will still send the RPM's up into unsafe territory.

If I understand you correctly, I think you are saying that you believe the AP2 would only crack a retainer if its bad enough to bend the valves as well? If so, we would never see any AP2's walking around with symptom free broken retainers?

Are you still recommending to inpsect 2.2L's?

 

I don't know much about retainers, but I'm taking a good guess that if I replace my bad retainers with the AP2, I have to do it to all of them(even if they are good)?

I know that retainers are only a few bucks, but how long would it take to replace them from start to finish? Or rather....how much would it cost to have a tech check and replace them?

 

Depends on how good the tech is. Someone as good as billman can do it in about 2 hours without pulling the head. However, the general Honda service manual calls for removing the head.

Whatever you do, make sure you get someone who has experiance with this motor (the s2k motor, f20 in your case) as its a job that requires someone who knows what they are doing and furthermore cares about the car.

 

For 2.2L, I'd do an initial valve adjustment at 10k miles minimum. Check the retainers at that point. As long as you know the car hasn't been serverly mis-shifted from that point on, I'd say your safe for another 75k miles and likely beyond.

This brings a question, maybe some of you can answer. Figure a 2.2L, wide open in third (8k rpm). Bang 2nd as fast as you can and dump the clutch. What RPM would the engine hit? (This is not recommended to try, just a math question )

 

According to Turn Zero's Calculator, 11050 RPM.

 

So given that situation, if the car runs smooth would you reommend a 2.2L inspect its retainers, or are you (bilman) thinking that if the intake retainers were going to get damaged the valves would have bent already on the exhaust side?

 

thanks again Billman250. you're a great asset to this forum.

sincerely,

matt