Here's what an Invidia stainless exhaust looks like after you run it for a while:



It's not rust, just nasty oxidation that happens if it gets wet. And it's not easy to remove...

 

Hey, Im not arguing that titanium doesnt look prettier than Stainless... it does. It probably stays cleaner too. I am arguing that Stainless systems dont rust through and will last just as long as your Ti exhaust in terms of car ownership. Your Ti exhaust might still be around in 10,000 years and the stainless may not, but that is pointless.

Im not hating, just stating fact. It just happens that facts are showing that Amuse, while *admittedly* made from a nice metal, and seamed together with nice welds, has some MAJOR design flaws. You argue that it is the best exhaust for our cars... I disagree.

Here are the FACTS that I use to support my opinion:

1. Mandrel bends flow better than welded angle joints

2. sharp/angled elbows (as opposed to radiused curves) in flow ports cause a backwash "eddy" which in effect acts like a smaller diameter opening than that which is actually used.

3. The Amuse exhaust has welded elbow joints and sharp elbows in its forward pipe... see numbers 1 and 2.

4. Other full Ti exhaust manufacturers have figured out how to properly mandrel bend a full Ti exhaust and still manage to sell it at a (much) cheaper price than Amuse.

5. The largest advocate for Amuse in this thread has admitted to having minor to moderate structural and quality issues with his Amuse exhaust which necessitated welding in a new section of titanium (not exactly a backyard mechanic project).

 

You started the thread wondering why titanium is often butt welded, you got your explanation. If it bothers you that a few kinks in the Amuse exhaust are butt welded, then don't buy one.

BTW, my Amuse was an early model, they have since changed the design of the mid muffler mount to make it stronger. I couldn't be happier with the performance, sound, and looks of my Amuse.

 

2000 for an exhaust? On a car that can currently be purchased for 20k?

Question: Is a Dual exhaust needed when trying to produce power on a modified 2.0L 4cyl operating at up to 9500rpm? I see that the exhaust is not actually a dual, it is a 1 into 2, where it actuall quite abruptly goes into 2.

How much does the stock system including cat weight? Maybe there are only numbers for after weight.

How much sound increase are we really talking about here? I don't want to sound like the flailing Civics here in SoCal that put on thier fart cans. I assume dual and single sound differently?

There is very little power change, right?

I do remember reading though that the guy with 500hp out of the vortech V2 in SoCal may need a bigger exhaust.

450hp is 450h, whether it is made by a supercharged Porsche 928 with 5.0L or a 2.0L Honda. It needs to get exhausted easily.

 

2000 for an exhaust? On a car that can currently be purchased for 20k?

The S2000 sells for more than US$50,000 in many places around the world. Just because you can buy a used one cheap doesn't mean high-tech expensive exhausts won't be offered.

Question: Is a Dual exhaust needed when trying to produce power on a modified 2.0L 4cyl operating at up to 9500rpm? I see that the exhaust is not actually a dual, it is a 1 into 2, where it actuall quite abruptly goes into 2.

Dual tips aren't needed, but they are usually quieter than singles and people like the looks. Plus, the AP2 bumper more or less requires that you run a dual.

How much does the stock system including cat weight? Maybe there are only numbers for after weight.

Including cat? Probably almost 70lbs. The exhaust without cat is over 50lbs. Most stainless duals only shave off about 10 lbs. The amuse dual titan removes about 40lbs.

How much sound increase are we really talking about here? I don't want to sound like the flailing Civics here in SoCal that put on thier fart cans. I assume dual and single sound differently?

Depends on what you get, some are so loud you can barely hear the stereo, others aren't much different than stock. In general, a single with no mid muffler is going to be very loud, so loud that you will probably get stopped by the police. Some duals can be really loud as well, like the Invidia. The quietest exhaust I've heard for the S2000 is the AP1 Mugen. The amuse dual titan extra is pretty quiet when running a cat. A little too quiet for me, so I removed the mid muffler.

There is very little power change, right?

Correct, the stock S2000 exhaust flows very well. The most you can expect is probably 10hp for a loud single and 5hp for a dual. Basically, you buy an exhaust for our cars to sound more aggressive, save weight, and look better.

 

In my opinion i think the reason they choose to weld rather than bend, is because the reduction in flow is so minor that the added effort is not worth it. Just an idea.

 

unless your car is in a show, worrying about how your exhaust looks is just as important as how your clutch PP looks. or your shiny new hi comp aluminum pistons look.

when an rsx is pulling on you, do you think:

"damn, my TI muffler is pretty isnt it? and check out the blueing from the heat. "

or

"FUK! I NEED MORE POWER GODDAMMIT!!"

for me, it's the latter. and thats my 2 pennies

 

BTW, here's a side view of the center piping. This is the only section that has butt welds. I seriously doubt that bent tubing would flow any better than the standard tubing.

Titanium, like most metals, is available in several different hardnesses and qualities. It's possible that mandrel bent Ti exhausts use a softer material, and that Amuse wanted to use stiffer material in the center section.

 

Great thread. Nice to see discussion coming from both sides.

 

i think they do it because it straight up looks good! these are parts of my sus. exhaust but im doing it because it looks cool and making a mandrel bent exhaust is just too plain and easy for my car. (costomers would need to pay big money for me to do this on theirs )