Yeah very true but we are trying to come up with something that is not to ghetto
It does work but greddy should incorporate a master fuel provisionDoes it already come with base maps thet get the car running or does it have to be crafeted from scratch?

 

Have you datalogged timing? What year is your project car? Where are you measuring your A/F ratio?

-YS

 

Just for reference, the stock ECU and knock sensor combo pulls out timing all the time, even on stock NA cars. I wonder if the emanage being in line has some effect on that. We get no _additional_ knock indication (i.e. no additional retard) on supercharged cars running them up into the 13:1 plus range at 6-7 psi on 91 octane

Terry, are you running a high boost setup? How's the exhaust temp? Which wideband? We use a MoTeC. Running in the low 10's you should be billowing out black smoke at full throttle. If not, maybe the sensor is off?

UL

 

To All,

my name is Jeffrey Atwood, I am tuning Jenner's Vortech charged
s2000. (I'm borrowing his login here)

Terry, I appreciate your valliant efforts to stick with the e-manage.

Running the A/F ratios in the 10's because you can't avoid the
F20c's tendency to knock?

The F20c has no more tendency to 'knock' then any other Honda engine.

Your 'tendency to knock' is product of HOW the e-manage modifies the
injection pulse width....not JUST because the 11:1 compression.

The e-manage does NOT have the ability to shorten the injection pulse width
by itself. It is wired into the injectors via a logic OR, if you will.
This is a REALLY signifcant issue when trying to use larger injectors.
Because you don't have the ability to 'properly' shorten the injector pulse
width.
(In my opinion this makes the e-manage worthless for anything other than
stock inj and NO FI)

So, IF EITHER the ECU OR e-manage wants the injector on it will
be on. Now you install your 440cc injectors and to get the car to run properly
at part throttle and idle you need SHORTER injector pulse widths then
with stock injectors. The e-manage CANNOT do this as the stock ecu
will be 'requesting' a long pulse width base on the stock injectors.

So how is the e-manage able to control larger injectors?
It 'fools' the ecu to shorten the pulse width by reducing the MAP sensor
signal. THIS is the REAL pitfall of the e-manage.

Now with this 'reduced' MAP signal you are also going to be into the
'light' load region of the IGNITION TABLE. Remember that the Fuel
and ignition tables are MAP vs. RPM.

AND as we all know the stock ECU has a lot of 'light load'
ignition timing dialed in. THIS is the casue fo your 'tendency to
knock' issue, you are running way too much ignition timing.
AND you have NO way (with the e-manage) to control it.

I have NO issues running upward to 8-9+ psi on a stock engine
at A/F's in the 12.1-12.4 range. Running the a/f in the 10's
is, frankly, a band-aid....

Sorry to rant, but I don't want to see people mis-led into believing
that a poorly tuned car is acceptable because it is tubrocharged after
all. You should be able to get decent gas mileage and pass all but
the most rediculous emissions standards....

Jeffrey Atwood

 

I think that's what happen to my car........my car was running really good on the lowend (below vtec) .....after vtec is detonating (I believe it's leaning out) and caused #1 cylinder scoring. I'm fixing the engine now and will be ready in 2 weeks.
Terry, would you be able to tune my E-manage? I have the Ultimate Racing turbo kit in there......would you be willing to tune it for me in the near future?

 

All those people with V-afc, fmu, and turbo kit......
Might as well tell them all to switch to standalone.

 

Might I suggest...

https://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?...threadid=124653

 

Terry,

IMO adding fuel to prevent detonation is a backwards way lower compression temperature. You should consider using what mother nature intended for temperature control. WATER! Maintain the optimal A/F settings 14.3:1 and To avoid detonation incorporate a water injection unit into the setup.

They are great for fixing exactly what you are trying to prevent! As the air is compressed instead increasing the amoutn of gasoline into the setup to help keep the temp below detonation, inject a small amout of water using one of the popular brands (maybe 250 bucks?). Water has a much higher specific heat than gasoline as well so it should be able to keep the charge cooler. It will also give you more room for variance so less maps should be necessary.

This will also aid in keepin carbon build up common in turbos to a minimun. it should also prevent hot spots keeping the engine just like new!

This would not be a "band-aid" either. It would be a true performance upgrade as it would also cool the charge even further after the intercooler as well. IT's also possible to add alcohol to the mixture for winter use, or to enhance performance. But most importantly, the car can be leaned out without fear of detonation which is EVERYONE's main concern!

Yeah, so when you gas up your car you'll have to add half a gallon of water. But I think you can see a lot more HP gains, safer enine conditions, and better gas mileage. Furthermore, I think that any FI car should have one!

As for many fuel maps. You may have to sell the unit with the emanage tuning program and several maps that the user can download onto their car for the expected weather. A winter Spring/fall Summer map does't seem like a bad idea. You can also have updates on the website in the chance you develop a "better" map and this way the person does not have to send you the emanage and be down a car for a few days.

Yes convience is optimal, however realibility and longivity is appreciated more over the long haul. Not everyone lives at sea level either and unless you are going to be doing some testing in denver. This is just something to consider.

EDIT: Have you tried using a lower temp thermostat to aid in keeping internal temps down??

 

I can fully understand the advantages of water injection, but the problem of why the cylinder temps are high enough to cause detonation is not being addressed. Is it possible that the manifold is not flowing the gases out of the head fast enough and the heat is building up?

I had a similar issue on my supercharged car. The catback exhaust I had on there (no I'm not naming names) was so restrictive, the car was detonating. We had fuel at 10:1 and it was still detonating. Dropped the catback and it went away.

Take it for what it's worth, but it is something I would seriously consider - especially with a newly developed manifold.

-YS

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Yellow Streak
[B]I can fully understand the advantages of water injection, but the problem of why the cylinder temps are high enough to cause detonation is not being addressed.