Don't deflect my comments away Got. I'm not saying Honda's elitist, I'm saying anyone with the attitude of "Well, my car's special and only special people should drive it" is elitists. When someone says all people who have problems with the S2000 are unworthy of the car, that's an elitist comment too. It's the kind of attitude that only the masters of marketing could program into a group. People like to be told they're special when they buy a product. It's marketing 101.

I was never exposed to Honda marketing. My buying decision was "well I want to upgrade to an FR track car now, I like honda's alot, there's really on one choice". Found one at a used car lot and wrote a check. So, I'm an outsider to the S2000 religeon. I'm still waiting for my baptism and conversion.

I don't doubt that for most people the S2000 is 100% reliable. I expect it will for me too. That's because, like you all, I'm above the great unwashed masses who are clearly unworthy of this car.

If you can't tell, I'm just joking around.

 

NO i think you missed what i was saying, im not suggesting that only certain people should buy the s2000 or any small market automobile. There are some people that dont fit the s2000 idea. People who want a nice comfortable gt car for sundy crusies on the highway. People who want a drag racer. People who want to drift. People who want to be bathed in luxury. These people could buy an s2000 and enjoy it, but they would be better suited getting a car in there genre, like a z4, corvette, 240, boxter. To me it sounds like you are in the s2000 genre so i wouldnt worry, i think there is an opening for baptism next week.

 

OK, Ek9, now I see the source of our misunderstanding. Hopefully it will clear things up if we backtrack a little.

If you do a search and look at my past posts you'll see that both I and XViper are among the first to object when anyone says that the S2000 isn't a drag car, or that it shouldn't be modified, etc.; I am quick to defend anyones right to own any car they choose and to use it in any way they see fit. We also have a few people who have expressed discontent because the cost of the cars used has come down to the point where "kids" can afford them, and if you check my old posts you'll see that I'm one of the old guys who is glad to see the car available to a larger number of people (to use in any way they please).

That doesn't alter the fact that products that are highly focused are usually NOT going to be entirely suitable for those outside the target market. Not everyone is going to be happy with a Ferrari, for lots of reasons. The same is true of the S2000, because it is just as highly focused as any Ferrari or Lotus. So is a Vette or MX5, but they have a substantially different focus.

Anyone who takes a careful look at the design of the S2000 can see that the car was indeed designed to deliver a specific (and unique) driving experience. The engine is placed completely behind the front axle to keep the polar moment low. The rear suspension was designed with a little roll steer to make the car turn in more quickly, and it was designed with a much stronger bias toward oversteer than most sports cars. Honda had to design a smaller air bag to allow the steering wheel to be as small as it is, and they used a magnesium core in the steering wheel because the extra regidity *slightly* improves steering feel (and this may well have been to offset or compliment the effects of the EPS). The car has a cockpit that is almost as tight as a forumla car, it has a start button like some race cars, it has a dash that is similar to an F1 instrument cluster, and it has a 9,000 RPM redline. All these things (and more) work together to give the car a feel that is very much like a dedicated track car, and indeed not that far removed from the experience of driving a Formula Ford. So far the only way you'll get closer to the F1 experience on the street is to buy an F40, F50, or Enzo. You can see this in the design, and if you've ever driven a forumla car of any kind you'll recognize it in the driving experience. It's a far cry from the real thing, but the car really does capture a good deal of the formula car experience.

To achieve this (targeting) compromises were made. The ride can be harsh on some surfaces. The driver (and passenger) get tons of feedback, which can be seen as a plus, or just as NVH. The car comes with summer tires, and one would assume that Honda expects owners to know that these tires aren't going to work as well in the cold (or when cold). Every design involves compromises, and the S2000 is no different. The roll steer that helps the car turn in so quickly also translates to bump steer on irregular surfaces, and at the limit this makes the car less stable over bumpy surfaces. It's not a flaw, but a design tradeoff. Every part of every car is a design tradeoff, and the design tradeoffs made in the original S2000 were NOT oriented toward the average driver. That is NOT TO SAY that average drivers shouldn't own and enjoy the cars, but rather that they should (at least) consider the design intent before coming down on the design compromises.

If you buy a Lotus you should know that parts are going to fall off from time to time. If you buy a Ferrari you should know that when you drive it hard the shift plate is going to make shifting hard sometimes, and you should know that if you skip gears you're going to eat up the synchros. People who buy specialty cars without knowing what they're getting into are certainly entitled to own and enjoy the cars, and they're even entitled to gripe about the things they don't like, but when they identify design decisisons as design flaws, they err, and correction seems appropriate (at least that's the way it seems to me).

So, Ek9, I totally agree that 'anyone with the attitude of "Well, my car's special and only special people should drive it"' would be elitest. That's certainly true, but niche market products are still aimed at niche markets, and thouse outside the target market are often dissipointed.

 

[QUOTE=gotrpms,Aug 3 2006, 02:01 PM]NO i think you missed what i was saying, im not suggesting that only certain people should buy the s2000 or any small market automobile.

 

The topic of misfires is covered in a few other threads around here. Some of them are in progress at this point. How many miles does you car have?

Here's my thread. I still have some misfire at idle, but I am not getting any CEL, I did after one autocross, but it went away by itself. I know a couple of other s2k owners here that have the same misfire at idle, but they have no CEL. The car runs great, it just has a puffing sound out the exhaust pipe that indicates the misfire. So I'm living with it for now.

https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showt...sfire+cylinders

Here's one that is in progress.

https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showt...sfire+cylinders

If you search for "random misfire" you will find more.

Good luck.

BTW - I really like my MY00 s2k with almost 71k miles, that most average people have never heard of, that I autocross at least two times a month, that I drive to work every day, that I replace tires for about every 10k miles, that I maintain and work on myself, that I welded the front A-arm brackets on, that I replaced the top on, that I park far away from morons, that I take grocery shopping, that I wore a hole in the leather seat from getting in so much, that is rough over some of the crappy roads around here, that is just awesome fun, etc, etc, etc, but you have to want this kind of experience.

BTW- I have seen parts fall off other cars (BMWs, Subarus, Miatas, vettes, and others) at autocross events, I have not seen anything fall off an s2k!

 

Yeah i am just like you, i meant someone who wanted a drag race car and thats it would be better suited in something else. But it will handel it jsut fine.