OK, so here is my story: my 04 develops an oil leak in year 5 with only 25k on the car. I do a search on this site and find I am not alone & a few others have had the same problem. Honda says they believe the rear main seal has to be replaced, but won't know until they pull the transmission. I think this is also an opportunity to replace the 1st and 2nd gear sets because of the popping out of gear problem that I, like others, have experienced -- and I know there is a TSB on the issue. I am past the Honda warranty (at least years-wise), but I have mechanical breakdown insurance through Geico. I get them involved and everything seems great -- except for my $250 deductible, they agreed to pay for everything ($3,900) including a new clutch which Honda wants to replace simply because they are removing the transmission. All good, right?

Not quite. Honda had my car for nearly 3 weeks and when I get it back it just doesn't seem to be right. 1st to 2nd shift is definitely better -- the slight notchyness seems to be gone, but 3 through 6 do not seem nearly as smooth as they once were. I am in complete denial for awhile and I am just happy to have my car back -- I chalk it up to cold weather. But the weather warmed up this week and I still think it is not shifting like it once did. Oh, but it gets worse -- you guessed it, the oil leak is back.

So here is where I need some help. I have a bunch of questions:
1. can the changing of the two gear sets impact the shifting in the other gears?
2. would Honda have any incentive to install a different transmission in my car and not tell me, rather than just replace the gear sets?
3. when I looked under the car yesterday and saw the oil drip it was right where it had been before -- where the tranny meets the engine. But I think I noticed something different -- the transmission housing had an indentation in it at dead center on the bottom where it meets the engine that I don't ever remember seeing before. When the car originally started leaking oil I was looking under the car all the time to see if I could figure out where it was coming from and to see if it was getting worse, so I feel like I know that indentation wasn't there before, but I'm uncertain. Does anyone have such an indentation on an AP2? It doesn't appear to be damage, it looks like a different design. I need to know if I'm nuts or if this is a different transmission housing.
4. if you sit in your car with the engine off or on, depress the clutch and row through the gears, is it smooth sailing? I tried that today and it seems incredibly rough at times -- I almost had to force it from 5th to 6th. Is that normal -- my memory says no, but this whole thing has made me question everything.

Thanks for any information you can give me. I want to be armed with as much knowledge as possible when I confront Honda over this.

paul

 

1. Yes, if they actually replaced the 1/2nd sets they would have to disassemble the entire transmission, there is a strong possibility they could screw up something else.

2. Depends on how you look at it. The amount of labor involved in a teardown could cost a lot more to the dealer. Just swapping out the transmission would probably cost them less in labor hours. However the cost of a new transmission over the cost of the gearsets could swing the cost the other way. That one is really hard to pin down. If you really want to be sure check the VIN, I am almost sure that it is printed somewhere on the tranny case like most other cars. I've actually never checked mine.

3. Leads me to assume they might have done the 1st/2nd set replacement and just completely skipped over the seal replacement. Dealers are shady. Sucks.

4. Not necessarily smooth sailing but forcing to 5th/6th is not normal.

I would contact the dealer and your insurance company and let them know the facts and that the repairs have not been completed to your satisfaction. I have Geico and know they have a satisfaction problem in place for body repair, if you are not happy they will do it over. I don't know if that applies to mechanical breakdown insurance too. Take pictures of the leak if you can and document EVERYTHING.

Your insurance company should rectify the situation for you as that is what you pay them for. If you don't get results go to Honda of America and file a complaint as well as the BBB. Let Geico and your Honda dealer know of your intentions if you don't get answers.

Good luck.

 

From the amount of stars you have, I am under the assumption that you bought the car brand new: If so, check the trans VIN. It should match the engine - if it doesn't they ****ed with you.

Also, yes, its easier and cheaper to buy a AP1 trans and pop it into the car than to change the gears

 

Thanks for the input guys -- it is much appreciated. Yes, I am the original owner and I will get under the car this weekend to get that transmission number. I'll let you know what I find.

I did contact Honda of America before I originally took the car to the dealer to see if they would extend the warranty since there was a TSB on the problem. They didn't say no, but said I had to go through a dealer first. That turned out to be a huge mistake! But at least they are already aware of the situation.

paul

 

OK, I checked the transmission number and the engine number and they are different. I want to double-check a couple of things before I accuse the dealership of fraud:

> is the engine number etched onto the block just to the front right (facing from the front of the car) of the valve cover?
> is the transmission number on a bar code sticker under the car on the passenger side?
> is there anyway to tell from the tranny number what year car it came from?

Thanks.

 

I would be careful about contacting them about fraud for one reason. I know dealerships would do the gear change because it pays more... they're not going to just swap out the tranny if they can make more money rebuilding your tranny.

Check your paperwork to find out exactly what they say they did. If the insurance company decided it would have been cheaper to replace with a used or reman transmission, they might have gone that route.

If the dealership really did rebuild the tranny, there should be a parts and labor warranty so that you can take it back and make a complaint.

 

Hey Paul, sorry I'm not more certain of this, but were the numbers very close? (off by a few letters and numbers at the end?) If they were, I really do believe they should match, hell - the bumper, fenders and trunk all have the VIN on them, why would they use some other number to mark the tranny?

I'm not 100% sure, but I know someone else will on here... Slipstream?billman?etc etc...

 

There is nothing on the bill to indicate that they used a transmission other than mine. The bill lists two gear sets, 4 gears (?), clutch parts and a whole bunch of other parts -- bearings, oil seal, collar, ...

If they were going to swap my tranny for a different one, why wouldn't they just tell me?

What made me suspicious of this dealer from the start was their insistence on replacing the clutch. When they told me they were going to do this, Geico had not yet approved the repairs, but the dealer was insisting that the clutch be replaced too. I asked if the oil leak had damaged the clutch and I was told no and that it was unlikely that Geico would cover it. I was told that it would run me $500. I said go back to the techs and find out why they want to replace it. The car only has 25K so I said leave the clutch alone. The next day I get a phone call from both Geico and the dealer and everything has been approved for replacement including the clutch. Ok, no reason to object if I'm not paying, but none of it made sense to me.

 

[QUOTE=ikeyballz,Mar 17 2010, 06:50 PM]Hey Paul, sorry I'm not more certain of this, but were the numbers very close?

 

I'll check it out tonight and get back to you. Mine should be OEM - I'm pretty sure I was the only one who changed the clutch...