LE-607 Diff Fluid
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 11,399
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It is funny how authoritative everyone one gets here. LE is not a poor choice or Honda would not have spec'ed a 90w for the car. They don't have more then one spec for the diff fill. So let's take Road Rage's word for it.
Originally Posted by Road Rage
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showt...dpost&p=5212838
A little gear oil 101:
1) Gear oil that is way thick causes heat buildup, in part from its own inertia. That is, the sliding of the molecules one over the other, producing heat. All things being equal, a 140 weight will produce more heat from this effect than a 90w. Synoils are usually better at this than minoils, but since the RPM in a diff are much lowert than in an engine, it is not nearly as big a deal
2) Honda recommends SAE 90w, GL-5. LE 607 is exactly that.
3) Too thick an oil also affects the cooling of the diff. Consider that in anything but a race car, the diff fluid is not pumped, but rather relies on 2 cooling mechanisms:
a) "Splash" lubrication, from the lubricant being churned by the gears
b) "Tack" lubrication, where the oil's properties cause it to be attracted to metal, and stay on it even after the gear has moved out of the fluid compartment in the diff - this has various names, but the point is the same.
4) Synoils tend to absorb heat and exchange it into the air better than minoils, all things being equal. This does not make them necessarily a better gear lube, however.
5) Very viscous oils do provide better protection from shock loading - great for drag racing, or for hauling heavy loads, but neither should be the deciding factor in determining the best overall gear lube for a street car.
I like LE607, but also have LE 9921 available, and would have no problem using something like Mobil1 if I lived in a very cold region. Valvoline also makes a fine syn gear lube. Thing is, all the ones I have seen have been 75w90's, and they just do not have the spec of a 90w when things get hot. I am not saying do not use them, but just pointing out even though it says 75w90 on the bottle, that does not mean a multi-vis gear lube will have the same protection @100degC as a quality 90w. It will not.
LE 607 is rated to a pour point of -11degF, which is awesome for a straight weight minoil. They must have some excellent pour point depressants in there - most 90w's are rated 20 degrees higher! Still, I would not use it in very cold climates. My car never sees temps below about 55degF.
A little gear oil 101:
1) Gear oil that is way thick causes heat buildup, in part from its own inertia. That is, the sliding of the molecules one over the other, producing heat. All things being equal, a 140 weight will produce more heat from this effect than a 90w. Synoils are usually better at this than minoils, but since the RPM in a diff are much lowert than in an engine, it is not nearly as big a deal
2) Honda recommends SAE 90w, GL-5. LE 607 is exactly that.
3) Too thick an oil also affects the cooling of the diff. Consider that in anything but a race car, the diff fluid is not pumped, but rather relies on 2 cooling mechanisms:
a) "Splash" lubrication, from the lubricant being churned by the gears
b) "Tack" lubrication, where the oil's properties cause it to be attracted to metal, and stay on it even after the gear has moved out of the fluid compartment in the diff - this has various names, but the point is the same.
4) Synoils tend to absorb heat and exchange it into the air better than minoils, all things being equal. This does not make them necessarily a better gear lube, however.
5) Very viscous oils do provide better protection from shock loading - great for drag racing, or for hauling heavy loads, but neither should be the deciding factor in determining the best overall gear lube for a street car.
I like LE607, but also have LE 9921 available, and would have no problem using something like Mobil1 if I lived in a very cold region. Valvoline also makes a fine syn gear lube. Thing is, all the ones I have seen have been 75w90's, and they just do not have the spec of a 90w when things get hot. I am not saying do not use them, but just pointing out even though it says 75w90 on the bottle, that does not mean a multi-vis gear lube will have the same protection @100degC as a quality 90w. It will not.
LE 607 is rated to a pour point of -11degF, which is awesome for a straight weight minoil. They must have some excellent pour point depressants in there - most 90w's are rated 20 degrees higher! Still, I would not use it in very cold climates. My car never sees temps below about 55degF.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,774
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From: Irvine, SoCal
I used Mobil1 Extended Performance 15W50 oil in my diff and transmission without any problem. Actually, my S is running smoother now than ever before, I also get better gas mileage too.
Mobil1 15W50 is best fluid for everyrhing.
Mobil1 15W50 is best fluid for everyrhing.
Registered User
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 325
Likes: 0
From: Corona, CA
Originally Posted by Stratocaster,Apr 1 2005, 08:48 AM
It is funny how authoritative everyone one gets here. LE is not a poor choice or Honda would not have spec'ed a 90w for the car. They don't have more then one spec for the diff fill. So let's take Road Rage's word for it.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 815
Likes: 0
From: Vancouver
Originally Posted by TR-S2K,Apr 1 2005, 01:04 PM
I used Mobil1 Extended Performance 15W50 oil in my diff and transmission without any problem. Actually, my S is running smoother now than ever before, I also get better gas mileage too.
Mobil1 15W50 is best fluid for everyrhing.
Mobil1 15W50 is best fluid for everyrhing.
It's way too thin for the diff and could be a good way to kill it.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 9,792
Likes: 5
From: Milwaukee Area
Originally Posted by Corona_S2K,Apr 1 2005, 03:54 PM
I certainly never said LE607 was a poor choice. I run LE607 in my diff. I did say that if I lived in a cold climate I would run Mobil 1 and not LE607. Road Rage's post that you quote states the same thing.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,660
Likes: 2
From: Midlothian
Originally Posted by Bigsalgt,Apr 1 2005, 10:48 AM
If your an owner of a S2000 and live in a region of the US that has a winter with temperatures that are below the freezing point you should not be using this product. but why the chance when another product is just as comparable. My advice, use the Mobil 1 and if your that partial to the LE product, switch over to it in the summer where it cant be any headaches.
You also imply that a 75w90 is "comparable". It isn't at high temps by a long shot. Just because it has a 90w top rating, it has nowhere near the vis, flash point, film strength, or shock loading of a 90w.
As others have said, I have never seen anything other than a 90w listed in the S2000 owner's manual. I have to believe it is there for a reason, and that is why I looked for a better mousetrap (90w diff oil) and found, tested, used, and recommended it. It is a bit of a phenom on the 'Net, as LE has seen a spike it its sales because of us and other Honda forums.
BTW, I know that LE607 is used in the diffs of buses and trucks in some pretty cold climates, and their maintenance costs have been quite low.
As I said, I agree that LE607 is not a good choice for upstate NY, Calgary, etc. But above temps where it gets solid, remember that driving conservatoively during the first few milesd (which I do even in the summer here in Virginia) is the best course for the entire drivetrain: engine, tranny, and diff. Not only will the fluids become less viscous, but the wear caused as the various metals reach their homeostatic operating points will be minimized.
Hope this helps.
RR.
