tugsta

Hello All,

Happy New Year to you and thank you for taking the time in reading the below issue I am currently having.

Background to my issue;
My original engine (lets call this 'Engine 1') was puffing white smoke through the exhaust, with my limited knowledge at the time my mechanic just pulled the engine apart and told me my engine was screwed without helping me to understand what had actually gone wrong. So I took a decision to buy a second-hand engine (lets call this 'Engine 2') that was in good working condition, I fit Engine 2 into my car and gathered together Engine 1's parts and sent it to another shop that I could trust (recommended by a good friend).

So current issue as it stands today;
Engine 1 and all it's pieces have been cleaned up by this reputable shop, parts have all been checked for damage or excessive wearing and I just found out the previous shop had actually skimmed the cylinder head by 0.2mm (not sure why). The current mechanic helped to list the parts that I needed to buy in order to rebuild Engine 1. His list was the bare minimal inclusive of main bearings, rod bearings, thicker headgasket, gasket rebuild kit, Piston Rings. If Engine 1 had been diagnosed properly from the start I could have solved the issue from the beginning, the piston rings had basically gone bust.

After many months of self-reading (Thanks to s2ki forum) and understanding the mechanics and requirements to rebuild the F20c engine, I managed to rack up quite a bit of knowledge in understanding the options I have available in order to spend on.

So with this I would like to hear from all of you here on some advise you can give me before I jump in and make a decision as there are a few options I have considered and would appreciate you could provide me your advise based on the below options I have pondered about (I am also open to other options as well of course);

1. Rebuild Engine 1 to stock N/a specs by reinforcing the engine with aftermarket parts to ensure reliability (buy valves, Springs, retainers, bearings etc).

2. Upgrade the internal parts of Engine 2 which has as of today done 150,000km but is still working fine with no issues at all. And use Engine 1's parts as a spare should anything go seriously wrong with Engine 2. By upgrading I will change the wear and tear parts such as the valves, springs, retainers, bearings etc to reinforce the engines reliability.

3. Possible option, rebuild old engine for forced induction.

My goal and current status;
With the above options that I have considered the ideal situation would be to rebuild and upgrade both engines, 1 for boost and the other n/a, however with budget constraints I can only do one of the above at this moment in time, so when advising me please keep this in mind that I can only choose 1 option.

Each option has their pros and cons, choosing option 1 there could be a risk the engine could fail if not built properly, choosing options 2 why touch something when it isn't broken. Option 3, budget on spending would increase.

My goal has always been to enjoy the s2000 in its n/a form. Boost is an option but I can imagine this would require more budget as my car is currently relatively stock at the moment. I enjoy going to the track and challenging the corners rather than flying 200mph along a straight.

Also I would really appreciate if you could also provide me advise on the option you choose in the context of the parts I should be looking to change and anything that will help me along with this rebuild/upgrade. I want to ensure that whatever I do, I do it right the first time around.

I know you are all very helpful and knowledgeable and I couldn't have understood what I know today if it wasn't for the advise contributed by everyone in the s2ki forum. So I would like to just say thank you to everyone who has contributed to this forum and I hope you can contribute to me issue I am facing currently.

Thanks.

Info on the engines;
-Both engines are AP1 Engines (2001 and 2002)
-Before Engine 1 blew it has travelled over 100,000km
-Both engines have stock internals (nothing has been changed or modified)
-If you need more info let me know.

CKit

My impressions:

Shop #1 was right, your first engine was "screwed." Hard to say for sure, but sounds like a combination of overheating / blown headgasket (white smoke) with possible attempt at machining the head flat (the reduced thickness) after warping, but there may have been additional problems (spun rod bearing from low oil). I don't think the piston rings were the primary problem (root cause). I have not heard of very many (or any) blown piston rings were the cause of an engine dying. Usually it's secondary to something else, AFAIK.

Maybe they didn't do a good job of explaining it to you, but in most cases it'll cost more to rebuild an engine than to get a decent used one.

The only reasons (IMHO) to rebuild a stock engine are:
1. You're racing (NA) in a series that allows you to blueprint an engine and you want the freshest engine possible.
2. You're building an engine to hold lots of boost.

Both options are more expensive than getting a used engine.
In some cases, the options can be more expensive than getting a brand new engine from Honda directly.

If you don't have a BIG budget, sell engine #1's parts to someone who needs to rebuild it anyway.
You don't want to track an FI S2000 unless you have money to upgrade differential, hubs, axles, clutch, transmission, brakes, etc.
If you're just putzing around a track, fine. But if you plan on running the car hard, I'd stick with stock and part out the first engine.

tugsta

Hi CKit,

Firstly thanks for your reply I see the angle your coming from and my thoughts were kinda the same, at first the idea of having two engines was exciting but when I sat down and actually thought abt it I realised that maybe I'm not investing into something that was feasible around my budget.

Before the engine was pulled apart there was no serious problem with the engine, it could still start and I could still use it, but it was loosing water from the radiator and overheated once which could of ended up screwing it even more.

So what your saying is that I should sell the parts and stick to Engine 2. Would you advise me to pull engine 2 and do some rework on it such as the head and bearings to increase its reliability and longivity? Even though the engine has not had a problem depsite its mileage?

Thanks again CKit.

Anyone elses input would be great.

vividracing.com

If you're shooting for the most reliable option, then go for a complete rebuild of engine 1 with nothing but high quality components and labor by a shop experienced with high performance engines. A Honda specialist with racing experience would be ideal. You can even explore some options for power upgrades since the engine is already apart. Once that engine is put together, swap it into your S2k and sell "Engine 2" to recoup some of the costs. This is, without a doubt, the most reliable route you could go.

tugsta

Hi vivid,

Thanks for you reply. You mention power upgrades, are you talking about adding cams? Would you be able to elaborate on what power mods are available that I could consider?

I'm planning to remain na for now but I do know going na and trying to get max power out of it will cost a bomb but this ain't my intention. Just ant reliability and longevity for the engine.

Thanks.

tugsta

Ok so I have decided to rebuild engine 1 to stock because I don't want to blow loads of money into an engine that could potentially break down after 500km. If his work is good I shall think about rebuilding engine 2 with upgraded internals.

So now that I will rebuild engine 1 I need some advice on the below;

1. Is it a must that I hone the block .25 even tho the mechanic said all measurements are in spec?
2. If i hone the block will I require larger pistons?
3. Is It a requirement to balance the engine?

If anything else I have missed and should think abt plz chime in.

Thx

vividracing.com

Honing the block is up to your engine builder. I would have the machine shop verify for you, rather than the mechanic. If the cylinders look good enough, they may tell you it's not necessary. Personally, I would go ahead and do it.

As far as your question about power upgrades, that depends on how much cash you have to spend and how much power you want. Based on what you've said, I'd go with a stock build or at the most, a mild NA build. Slight bump in compression and cams is all I'd recommend based on what you've posted here. Let me know if you need any parts.

rob-2

I dont know if you're building an ap1 or ap2 motor. If an ap2 motor, some folks bump up compression to 12:1 to get more power out of an otherwise stock block.