AusS2000 Posted on Oct 11 2007, 07:07 PM
The 8k limit exists for the F22.
The F20's sold in Europe today (and the rest of the world?) still rev to 9k.

Is there factual evidence the F20 retainers were changed over the years?
As in, different official Honda part#?
I've called my Honda dealer a while back and asked them to check the part # for the F22 retainer (as per San Leandro online parts databsae), it showed up as a 2007 Civic retainer IIRC, no S2000 => that I'm sure of.

If the retainers were that critical AND Honda changed them for later F20's I'm sure there would have been a European recall for them.
Simular thing with the oil jets, recall in Europe, not in the US.
I don't think Honda would risk old F20's and their "weak" retainers in Europe.

Keep the revs below 9k and IMO! always revmatch on downshifts and youll have happy retainers for ever.

 

I had at least three mild (under 10K) overrevs on mine, and no damage to the retainers after 60K.

If you caught it before it hit 9K then it's not even an overrev.

 

Well, I *think* I caught it, but I'm not 100% on that. Probably well under 10k tho. Thanks for the reassurance

 

once again - no one has been able to say if there is an appreciable difference in mass between AP1 and AP2 retainers. I don't see this as an issue. I would consider valve deposits a greater threat than the ever so slight increase in mass of an AP2 retainer.
Piston velocity is the greatest redline limiting factor with the AP2, not retainer mass.

 

~10,100 RPM over-rev (speed based estimate), approx 17,000 miles ago. No aparent damage and inspected every 3,000 miles since - but I think I may make still make an appt with Billman when I get back from the sandbox to go with AP2 retainers regardless. It's a good excuse for a road trip nonetheless!

 

AP2 and AP1 retainers are different part numbers. Billman can give you the details if need be.

 

My point was:
AP2's sold in Europe today (Sat, October 13th) will have the AP2 looks, front bumper, exhaust and such, AP2 suspension, wheels and gearbox (carbon coated synchro's but the AP1 ratio's!!), AP2 interiour stuff, and..... (insert drum) .....

The F20 (2-liter) engine.
With the 9000 rpm redline.
With the same retainers I have (MY00)

There are F22 retianers.
There are F20 retainers.
Worldwide.
(Well.. Japan may be different )

AP1 and AP2 is region specific.

As far as I know, the MY07 EUspec (= F20) retainers are still the same, IOW have not been changed.
I'm not conspiritionalist so I don't think Honda changed retainer design for the F20 over the years but kept the same part#.

 

I understand your point.
Generally speaking - On this site, AP1 is used to refer to F20 equipped U.S. spec 00-03 cars, and AP2 is used to refer to F22 equipped cars.
It's not a deliberate attempt to ignore the differences in U.S. Spec vs. Euro vs. JDM vs. middle east etc. It's simply due to the fact a majority of members on this board are U.S. owners, and general references made with respect to AP1 vs. AP2 are reflected as such.
This is in no way should discourage discussions relating to those differences.

 

This is an intrnational site, so I always try to say F20C or F22C, and AP1 or AP2, as appropriate, because there are three conbinations.

AP1+F20C
AP2+F20C
AP2+F22C

But living in the USA, I'm use to only two combinations so I think I screw it up sometimes too.

I believe that all F20C's have the same valve spring retainters, regardless of whether the engine came in an AP1 or AP2. I also think all F22C's have the same retainers, regardless of where they're sold. FIWI, I base this belief on my understanding of information provided by Bilman; Haven't actually looked up part numbers myself.

 

I guess I should say 2.0 and 2.2L retainers

Either way.....The 2.2 retainers are a different part#, as are the keepers (or cotters as Honda calls them)