S2000 Under The Hood S2000 Technical and Mechanical discussions.

Plumbing for S2000 engine

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Old Apr 17, 2013 | 12:12 PM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by dolebludger
If this Chevette is anything like the Chevy Chevette they sold in the US back in the 70s and 80s, I hope your life insurance is paid! My kids had a Chevy Chevette for a short time (that's about all they were good for). It was the flimsiest piece of crap I have ever driven. 260 hp would have shredded that thing.
Because your Chevette was made in the US, there's your problem
Here is some footage of a crazy Irishman with a Chevette with a S2000 motor in it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHcHZrj4i6I
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Old Apr 17, 2013 | 12:55 PM
  #12  
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Originally Posted by LeonV
Originally Posted by Stratocaster' timestamp='1366152697' post='22478442
[quote name='LeonV' timestamp='1366141944' post='22477996']
[quote name='jsenclosures' timestamp='1366126717' post='22477278']
You may just want to loop the ones for the heater out and back in the engine
Bad idea. If no heater is being used, block the lines. Do not loop.
Why? Please explain why it is a bad idea. I don't see any technical reason it would matter. It is just 6-8" of hose to loop it at the block.
[/quote]
Think about how coolant flows through the engine.

Looping the heater hoses short-circuits the radiator and feeds hot coolant back into your engine. Not a good idea, unless you want to increase the chances of overheating your engine.
[/quote]

Normally this heater line is looped, there is only a tiny heater core the fluid is passing through when the heat is on and the valve is open. The Delta T on the inlet and outlet of the engine through that hose would be very, very minimal. I do not see where capping it off would be a bad idea, i just do not see your reasoning for not looping it. Like mentioned above, track guys have been looping it back in the engine for a long time now and i haven't heard a bad thing about it. I suppose we'll leave it up to dealers choice
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Old Apr 17, 2013 | 01:50 PM
  #13  
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Originally Posted by Stratocaster
I see you point. The heater is separate fluid path, but the valve stops the flow when not the heater is not use.
Correct.

Originally Posted by Stratocaster
But in reality I have not seen it to be an issue in the last 6 years. Mine is looped and I live in Texas and run on the track in July. Water temps are never far about 200. So WOT for the most part of a 25 min session has shown to be a non issue with a looped system.

But you do make me want to remove the loops to see if there is a difference. Add that to my list of stuff to do
One thing to think about is that your coolant temp sensor that sends a reading to your gauge is in one distinct location. You have no idea what the coolant temps are at other (possibly more critical) areas of the engine.

Originally Posted by jsenclosures
Originally Posted by LeonV' timestamp='1366158089' post='22478602
[quote name='Stratocaster' timestamp='1366152697' post='22478442']
[quote name='LeonV' timestamp='1366141944' post='22477996']
[quote name='jsenclosures' timestamp='1366126717' post='22477278']
You may just want to loop the ones for the heater out and back in the engine
Bad idea. If no heater is being used, block the lines. Do not loop.
Why? Please explain why it is a bad idea. I don't see any technical reason it would matter. It is just 6-8" of hose to loop it at the block.
[/quote]
Think about how coolant flows through the engine.

Looping the heater hoses short-circuits the radiator and feeds hot coolant back into your engine. Not a good idea, unless you want to increase the chances of overheating your engine.
[/quote]

Normally this heater line is looped, there is only a tiny heater core the fluid is passing through when the heat is on and the valve is open. The Delta T on the inlet and outlet of the engine through that hose would be very, very minimal. I do not see where capping it off would be a bad idea, i just do not see your reasoning for not looping it. Like mentioned above, track guys have been looping it back in the engine for a long time now and i haven't heard a bad thing about it. I suppose we'll leave it up to dealers choice
[/quote]

First off, I never said capping it is a bad idea. That's exactly what I'm advocating for.

As for what happens normally, hot coolant flows from the engine through a control valve and into the heater core before making its way back to the water pump inlet. Both the core and valve are restrictions which limit coolant flow through them. Furthermore, the heater core itself is a radiator. With the valve set to cold (closed), no coolant flows through the loop. With the valve set to hot, a set amount of coolant flows through the heater system and radiates heat through the core. This drops the temperature of the coolant in the loop. As you can now hopefully see, a short rubber hose loop accomplishes none of these things.

As an aside, when we used to go on family trips to Yosemite in our crappy Chevy Lumina in the heat of summer, my dad would turn the temp control to full HEAT and set the interior fan to full blast. This kept coolant temps at bay, much to our chagrin...
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Old Apr 17, 2013 | 02:05 PM
  #14  
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Originally Posted by jsenclosures
The Delta T on the inlet and outlet of the engine through that hose would be very, very minimal.
Wow, I totally missed this. That's the whole reason it's a bad idea! Look at the coolant path. If looped, hot coolant would flow from the head into the loop and back to the water pump inlet. It skips the radiator and is not cooled (i.e. minimal deltaT). Not good!

Like I said in my original post, it will increase chances of overheating, not necessarily guarantee it. What it will guarantee is hotter coolant temps.
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Old Apr 18, 2013 | 06:38 AM
  #15  
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I'm against you on this. the heater core for your heat in the car has a very minimal delta T. this is not the same as the radiator you keep referring to. Sure a heater core and a radiator both disperse heat, the heater core is the size of my hand, it isn't doing much with the heat to full blast, it is doing nothing with the heat off. track guys loop the system and have been doing it for years with zero problems
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Old Apr 18, 2013 | 06:39 AM
  #16  
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i'm not saying capping it is a bad idea, i'm just saying that either way you chose to re-route/cap the heeater line will acomplish the same thing
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Old Apr 18, 2013 | 07:30 AM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by jsenclosures
I'm against you on this. the heater core for your heat in the car has a very minimal delta T. this is not the same as the radiator you keep referring to. Sure a heater core and a radiator both disperse heat, the heater core is the size of my hand, it isn't doing much with the heat to full blast, it is doing nothing with the heat off. track guys loop the system and have been doing it for years with zero problems

When it is doing nothing, coolant does not pass through this fluid route. He is right. Although the flow rate of the fluid from the head to the pump would be less them from the head through the radiator to the pump, you are still fighting this additional thermal load.

FYI, The temp I am reading is the Stock temp sensor the ECU reads located on the back of the intake manifold on the fliud out path.

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Old Apr 18, 2013 | 11:28 AM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by jsenclosures
I'm against you on this. the heater core for your heat in the car has a very minimal delta T. this is not the same as the radiator you keep referring to. Sure a heater core and a radiator both disperse heat, the heater core is the size of my hand, it isn't doing much with the heat to full blast, it is doing nothing with the heat off. track guys loop the system and have been doing it for years with zero problems
With the valve set to COLD, there is no flow through the loop. With the control set to HOT, there is a set amount of coolant flow that is restricted by the core and metered by the control valve. There is a deltaT, albeit it's probably not as high as the radiator, but coolant flow through the core is also not as high as the radiator.

Looping that circuit with a short length of hose will have a constant flow of HOT coolant with essentially ZERO deltaT going from the back of the head to the water pump inlet. Also, this flow has much less restriction than when using the heater system, meaning you've increased the flow of HOT coolant in the loop. This is completely different than leaving the heater loop intact, if you still haven't realized this.

Just because "track guys loop the system and have been doing it for years with zero problems," doesn't mean that it's a "good" solution. Plugging it is a much better idea.

Originally Posted by jsenclosures
i'm not saying capping it is a bad idea, i'm just saying that either way you chose to re-route/cap the heeater line will acomplish the same thing
See above.

Originally Posted by Stratocaster' timestamp='1366299053' post='22482574
Originally Posted by jsenclosures
I'm against you on this. the heater core for your heat in the car has a very minimal delta T. this is not the same as the radiator you keep referring to. Sure a heater core and a radiator both disperse heat, the heater core is the size of my hand, it isn't doing much with the heat to full blast, it is doing nothing with the heat off. track guys loop the system and have been doing it for years with zero problems

When it is doing nothing, coolant does not pass through this fluid route. He is right. Although the flow rate of the fluid from the head to the pump would be less them from the head through the radiator to the pump, you are still fighting this additional thermal load.

FYI, The temp I am reading is the Stock temp sensor the ECU reads located on the back of the intake manifold on the fliud out path.
Precisely! Thank you for taking the time to look at the diagrams and THINK about what's going on. Great photo BTW, thanks for posting that.

I hope I've been clear...
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Old Apr 18, 2013 | 11:37 AM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by LeonV
Precisely! Thank you for taking the time to look at the diagrams and THINK about what's going on. Great photo BTW, thanks for posting that.

I hope I've been clear...

That is exactly why I asked you to explain your point. Thanks for doing it.
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Old Apr 20, 2013 | 01:08 AM
  #20  
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Thanks guys for your advise,
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