Hello this is BlakAzian

 

Ok "friend", welcome! I'll try to address some of this. As for "confusion of acronyms" (I work for the gvt...don't get me started on using too many acronyms ), fuel injection was never mentioned. FI refers to forced induction here, which includes superchargers, turbochargers, ram air, and nitrous oxide. Basically anything that increases the amount of oxygen/oxidizer that the engine gets fed over what it would intake in normal "pump" mode. So a supercharger is just one type of forced induction system. A CAI would not be useful in conjunction with any modification that places a compressor between the intake and the engine, regardless of what drives the compressor.

Any CAI alone on the S2000 gives minimal power gains, though in conjuction with all the plumbing (headers, exhaust) and fuel tuning, people have seen some noticeable gains. Sound is the only noticeable difference that you will get with just a CAI.

As for the S seeming slow compared to the R1...well, not much can be done about that. I ride too, and acceleration wise, there's almost nothing that can touch a bike. There's nothing you can do to provide that sensation - or even come close to it.

If the car was bought new from a dealer, it's very possible many of these mods (including a supercharger) can be done through them and not void the warranty. The dealer I purchased my car from will install a Comptech supercharger and cover the whole thing (including supercharger) under the factory warranty. Not a bad deal...

Personally though, I like my car the way it is and am not planning any major modifications. I'm going nuts and getting a cross-brace next week, I have a nice leather shift knob, and snow tires for these balmy winter months. That's about it.

Whatever you decide to do, enjoy the car!

 

Where has anyone ever come up with the idea a Supercharger is more reliable than a turbo?

If that were the case there were there would be more supercharged cars from the factory than turbo'd cars.

Other than the need for a manifold, for which there is no recognized source AT THE MOMENT, they aren't really any more complicated. Exhaust driven compressor = turbo. Belt driven compressor = SC.

They do have diferent fuel management needs, but that is because a street turbo makes so much more power so much earlier in the powerband than a SC.

Gee that sounds like a good problem to have!

 

ejis-

A couple things:

1. Comptech's air box and foam filter are not very good.
2. Your AIT will be lower if the air that is being compressed is lower to begin with. That is, sucking cold air instead of engine bay air will result in lower AITs.
3. While there is more piping involved, if you can run a big ass K&N that breathes easy, your restriction will actually be lower.

Here are some pictures of my setup:





If you have the time and money to experiment, *anything* can be improved.

-YS

 

Yellow Streak -

You are, of course, right that if you start with a lower temperature, you'll end with a lower temperature. The difference, however, is not that great considering that amount of heat that an SC puts into the air and the fact that more work has to be done to compress the colder, denser air. You are certainly correct that running a low restriction filter and manifold is helpful. What I was saying was that the CAI's that you attach to an NA engine, besides not being able to connect to the SC or turbo, would not help performance at all.

David b -

SC's aren't more reliable than turbo's from the factory and are more efficient since they use "wasted" energy to spin the compressor as opposed to useful energy off the shaft. In aftermarket systems though, turbo's are more difficult to setup reliably. And for the S2000 specifically, people have had more luck with SC's than turbo's in making a reliable car.

 

ejis - actually it is more of there are just now starting to be aftermarket turbo kits whereas the supercharger kits have been out a while. The kit manufacturer has done most of the problematic part of tuning the SCs which the reliabiltiy factor so far. In the world in general SCs end up with more maintenance issues than a turbo. Fortunately (for us) both are now very trouble free!!

You have to add more fuel over a wider range of rpms with a turbo because it has boost over a much wider range of rpms so in that respect it is more difficult to set up, but with some of the new piggyback units out there even the end user can now set up the fuel maps for a turbo or SC system.

I was just talking with a guy who used the TEC 3 system (definitely not a low end unit). He set the desired A/F ratio and then drove the car. When he got back to the shop he had a very good "coarse" map. With a very few dyno runs and a couple of days of logging as he drove he had a very good power producing and trouble free map. This wasn't on an S2000, but that doesn't matter.

Something about Comptechs airbox. Someone who has done a lot of turbo and SC work over the years was looking at the the Comptech box and said it did not have a large enough filter element. He showed me the math to show that it needed about twice as much as it had. This works to increase the air temp because of reduced efficiencies. I couldn't even begin to recreate the math, but he was very convincing.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by David b
[B]Something about Comptechs airbox. Someone who has done a lot of turbo and SC work over the years was looking at the the Comptech box and said it did not have a large enough filter element. He showed me the math to show that it needed about twice as much as it had. This works to increase the air temp because of reduced efficiencies.

 

David b - I'll take your word for the reliability of turbo vs. SC in general (and I know that factory based turbo applications are quite solid). All I was saying is that of all the kits available now for the S2000, the SC kits are generally more reliable and require less fiddling to run correctly. Is this not correct anymore? It would be great if there were turbo options available with the same completeness of the sc and as reliable.

Interesting about the Comptech box... It's all about flow efficiency. That doesn't surprise me at all though since it's basically identical to their NA CAI box (or is it completely identical?) so it couldn't be optimized for both applications. I would be interested in seeing the calculations (I'm an aerospace engineer by trade, aerodynamics is my main interest).

 

I can get you the math. I "don't got the smarts" to even have the interest or inclination to follow it, but I know enough to follow along and I will take the word of the experts when they appear to be right to me.

And yes, I know it is because of the rudimentary stage of turboing the S that you are seeing these issues, but it is something that will be remedied very soon

In either case you will get more hp by fiddling with the "factory" settings. Most will be conservative so max hp will always require a little extra work on either system.

Don't get me wrong, I am not anti SC. I like them in many cases, I just don't think they are the perfect match for our engine. They only aggravate an already odd power band. The turbo makes more sense to me because it "normalizes" our power band and gives you more hp and torque "under the power curve" which makes for a more pleasant car to drive. There's a whole lot more to a car than just the peak hp.

 

Sorry but I can't help but to chime in. "CAI" is a general term. It's a catchall. All it means is that it's giving you air from other than in the engine compartment thusly making it cooler than the ambient tem under the hood. You most definitely can either make a custom intake (ie: Yellow Streak) or even mod an existing CAI kit like the Injen for example to work with your application. As for Turbo reliability / difficulty... if you go to someone who knows what they are doing and has a working knowledge based on experience of the S2000 you can indeed make a reliable turbo car. I don't want to stir the pot (well maybe I do...) but theoretically, a turbo should be better for the engine because when you're not under load producing acceleration the turbo just passes the air through not changing the characteristics of the engine while a supercharger is running all the time thusly putting added stress on the engine. OK, let the bashing begin...
-BS2KT