X braces
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 7,279
Likes: 1
From: Fountain Valley, CA
When you compare this for that, I for one, can not make sense of a piece of metal mass produced (very attractive of course) and compare price of that with lets say an X-box with all its high tech gadgetry ($299) for an X-brace ($259) and you can not detect its presence (as so express by some on this forum). Strut Brace on my car was $269.99 plus tax and sorry I could not tell a difference but I am not a track racer like a lot of people on this forum.
This car has been so well refined from Honda that it is almost impossible to improve anything on it. Maxing out something that already is maxed out and paying a premium for it would have to be for cosmetic reasons and not too much emphasis on performance. I am proud to admit all of my mods are: for the most part cosmetic and not too much riding on improving on this already outstanding sports roadster.
Tan
This car has been so well refined from Honda that it is almost impossible to improve anything on it. Maxing out something that already is maxed out and paying a premium for it would have to be for cosmetic reasons and not too much emphasis on performance. I am proud to admit all of my mods are: for the most part cosmetic and not too much riding on improving on this already outstanding sports roadster.
Tan
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 2,895
Likes: 1
From: You wish
Can a x-brace improve stiffness? Sure.
In terms of handling benefits, does a brace give you $ for $ benefits equivalent to shocks/springs/swaybars? Absolutely not.
I haven't purchased a x-brace (or strut bar, or rear bar) for my S2K. I've ridden in and driven in cars with them and couldn't tell any difference vs. stock cars. People had to tell me there were braces. And yes, I spend lots of time on track.
I think the reason people go for braces are:
(1) they're relatively inexpensive
(2) relatively easy to install
(3) relatively benign in their handling effects
(4) require no adjustment
But I'd much rather purchase the somewhat pricey Mugen front swaybar at $349 than spend a similar amount on a x-brace. The handling benefits are significant with the swaybar.
BTW, I have a full complement of braces on my CRX. But its a 11 year old economy car chassis with twice as much power as originally intended and 750 lbs/in springs (in a 2100 lbs car!). Additionally, those braces were the last thing I added.
UL
In terms of handling benefits, does a brace give you $ for $ benefits equivalent to shocks/springs/swaybars? Absolutely not.
I haven't purchased a x-brace (or strut bar, or rear bar) for my S2K. I've ridden in and driven in cars with them and couldn't tell any difference vs. stock cars. People had to tell me there were braces. And yes, I spend lots of time on track.
I think the reason people go for braces are:
(1) they're relatively inexpensive
(2) relatively easy to install
(3) relatively benign in their handling effects
(4) require no adjustment
But I'd much rather purchase the somewhat pricey Mugen front swaybar at $349 than spend a similar amount on a x-brace. The handling benefits are significant with the swaybar.
BTW, I have a full complement of braces on my CRX. But its a 11 year old economy car chassis with twice as much power as originally intended and 750 lbs/in springs (in a 2100 lbs car!). Additionally, those braces were the last thing I added.
UL
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 588
Likes: 7
From: Bellingham
I'll share some observations that I made while performing some back-to-back prototype x-brace testing. The test vehicle was an '01 S2000 and was completely stock. Tests were conducted with the prototype aluminum x-brace installed, removed, and installed again. Testing was performed both on the street and at auto-x events.
The easiest way to describe the difference is that of driving a car with tall soft snow tires versus the car with 35 series performance tires. Steering response was drastically improved (yes, the incredible S2000 steering can be even better). Corner initiation had to be adjusted to compensate for the improved response. Power oversteer corrections also became much easier to perform as the steering input was instant rather than trying to anticipate what the car will do without the x-brace installed. I would highly recommend getting one whether it is for spirited street driving, auto-x, or road coarse.
The easiest way to describe the difference is that of driving a car with tall soft snow tires versus the car with 35 series performance tires. Steering response was drastically improved (yes, the incredible S2000 steering can be even better). Corner initiation had to be adjusted to compensate for the improved response. Power oversteer corrections also became much easier to perform as the steering input was instant rather than trying to anticipate what the car will do without the x-brace installed. I would highly recommend getting one whether it is for spirited street driving, auto-x, or road coarse.
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,269
Likes: 0
From: walnutcreek
I got all 3 Spoon braces(X-brace, rear brace, ST brace) and took it to Sears Pt. this past weekend. I couldn't feel squat -- and I've been competing for the past 5 yrs.
Having said that, I think that it's a good thing to get the brace as it stiffens the car overall. A stiff chassis is fundamental necessity for the rest of the suspension to do its job. But is this quantifiable? I think maybe in lap times.
Having said that, I think that it's a good thing to get the brace as it stiffens the car overall. A stiff chassis is fundamental necessity for the rest of the suspension to do its job. But is this quantifiable? I think maybe in lap times.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 304
Likes: 0
From: Pembroke, NH
Having been under my car numerous times I can attest the substructure of the car. my impression of the x-brace fall into three categories below. I would say that I will buy one once the clear winner has been determined (price, corrosion protection, rigidity, etc..).
1. The lower suspension does not move that much and the 0.25" quoted is probably a good maximum value. Most of this flex however is in the lower suspension bushings and this flex will not be eliminated by an x-brace, only with urethane bushings. Also note that what you feel on the street is typically bump steer where relatively small deflections in the lower suspension "A" arm can change the alignment of the car under the certain conditions. Vote: stiffer is better, buy an x-brace
2. Most of the x-braces cross directly below the oil drain plug so oil will drain on the bar. None of the ones I have seen restrict access to the oil filter so once it is installed you don't have to take it off. Vote: buy an x-brace that has a coating resistant to road wear, salt, water and oil.
3. From the factory the lowest point on the car is the subframe just in front of the oil pan. In fact there is a small rubber bumper on this subframe that serves to protect the oil pan in the event of a minor to moderate frontal collision. The engine after all is one of the most expensive parts in the car. Once installed, the x-brace is now the lowest part of the car. This can work both ways. A really substantial x-brace could be seen as a device used to protect the oil pan however the x-brace is now more likely to be hit and potentially forced into the oil pan where it can do damage. Vote: buy an x-brace that is not just rigid in tension but can also take a moderate hit from below.
4. (extra comment) you can't see a front x-brace from the street and there is a lot of other cool stuff to buy for the car. Vote: buy something. Note that I do not work for any vendors that sell S2000 parts.
1. The lower suspension does not move that much and the 0.25" quoted is probably a good maximum value. Most of this flex however is in the lower suspension bushings and this flex will not be eliminated by an x-brace, only with urethane bushings. Also note that what you feel on the street is typically bump steer where relatively small deflections in the lower suspension "A" arm can change the alignment of the car under the certain conditions. Vote: stiffer is better, buy an x-brace
2. Most of the x-braces cross directly below the oil drain plug so oil will drain on the bar. None of the ones I have seen restrict access to the oil filter so once it is installed you don't have to take it off. Vote: buy an x-brace that has a coating resistant to road wear, salt, water and oil.
3. From the factory the lowest point on the car is the subframe just in front of the oil pan. In fact there is a small rubber bumper on this subframe that serves to protect the oil pan in the event of a minor to moderate frontal collision. The engine after all is one of the most expensive parts in the car. Once installed, the x-brace is now the lowest part of the car. This can work both ways. A really substantial x-brace could be seen as a device used to protect the oil pan however the x-brace is now more likely to be hit and potentially forced into the oil pan where it can do damage. Vote: buy an x-brace that is not just rigid in tension but can also take a moderate hit from below.
4. (extra comment) you can't see a front x-brace from the street and there is a lot of other cool stuff to buy for the car. Vote: buy something. Note that I do not work for any vendors that sell S2000 parts.
Former Sponsor
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,864
Likes: 6
From: Phoenix
Good write up. S2000 owners are very fortunate to be able to have a quality non/low-compliance bushing kit available for the S2000 from Spoon Sport:
http://www.scienceofspeed.com/products/sus...on/bushing_kit/
Of the available S2000 x-braces that I have experience with, I have been most impressed by the Comptech unit for the reason of item number 3. The ground clearance of the Comptech bar is the best I have seen. We're waiting for Comptech to release full information on this bar, as what I saw in person was a prototype unit. The Digrappa Billet Brace also looks like a contender.
Regards,
-- Chris
[QUOTE]Originally posted by tbalon
[B]Having been under my car numerous times I can attest the substructure of the car.
http://www.scienceofspeed.com/products/sus...on/bushing_kit/
Of the available S2000 x-braces that I have experience with, I have been most impressed by the Comptech unit for the reason of item number 3. The ground clearance of the Comptech bar is the best I have seen. We're waiting for Comptech to release full information on this bar, as what I saw in person was a prototype unit. The Digrappa Billet Brace also looks like a contender.
Regards,
-- Chris
[QUOTE]Originally posted by tbalon
[B]Having been under my car numerous times I can attest the substructure of the car.