S2000 Vintage Owners Knowledge, age and life experiences represent the members of the Vintage Owners

Dave- your derby thoughts

Thread Tools
 
Old May 5, 2008 | 06:58 PM
  #21  
boltonblue's Avatar
Member (Premium)
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 37,581
Likes: 6,377
From: bolton
Default

Originally Posted by mikegarrison,May 5 2008, 10:26 PM
PS. this seemed so surprising to me that I tried to look it up. As far as I can tell, it is not true that all the horses in the field were descended from Seattle Slew. Where did you hear that?
it was discussed on ESPN today.
I believe I got it correct but may have mangled the facts.
I went back and realized I didn't put the intended disclaimer on the statement.
most humble apologies if i mis-spoke.
even if no snipers were involved
Reply
Old May 5, 2008 | 07:17 PM
  #22  
RedY2KS2k's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 2
From: Delaware, OH
Default

The animal (note animal, not human) was in pain and had little chance of recovery; the owners most certainly didn't want to lose their investment but it was the right thing to do, as soon as the prognosis was reasonably sure.

As I understand it, Barbaro's injuries were less serious, large sums of money were spent on care, and Barbaro still died.

And to those who object to the term "euthanized," when you have a pet who is in agony in the last stages of life, will you step up and say you "killed the pet right there", or will you force it to suffer unreasonably?
Reply
Old May 5, 2008 | 07:46 PM
  #23  
mikegarrison's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 22,888
Likes: 3
From: Covington WA, USA
Default

Originally Posted by DrCloud,May 5 2008, 07:41 PM
^^ Native Dancer (vintage 1950s) is said to be the DNA source for much of todays thoroughbreds, not Seattle Slew. This has been discussed by various sources recently in the context of the breakdown at the Derby. HPH
When I tried to look up the bloodlines, I did keep seeing Native Dancer as an ancestor. Since he was from the '50s, I knew it couldn't be a case of Seattle Slew being his great-great grandfather or some such thing.

The horse that came in second place (and died) had Nothern Dancer as a great-grandfather (Native Dancer was Northern Dancer's grandfather).

The horse that won had Northern Dancer as a great-grandfather on both his father's and mother's sides.

At least one of the other horses was descended from Seattle Slew, though, via Slew's son AP Indy.
Reply
Old May 6, 2008 | 03:07 AM
  #24  
DrCloud's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,077
Likes: 0
From: EstesPark/BocaRaton
Default

And there's also been talk of Barbaro's being in the same blood lines. I saw an interview in which they discussed how breeding for strength and speed (and light bones) has changed racing (faster) but made for more delicate horses, compared to the heavier boned, sturdier horses of the middle 20th century. HPH
Reply
Old May 6, 2008 | 03:16 AM
  #25  
TheToon's Avatar
Registered User
Gold Member (Premium)
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,464
Likes: 0
From: Leominster MA
Default

Originally Posted by Triple-H,May 5 2008, 03:30 PM
I would have given the horse and the owner a bit more dignity.
I'm not sure how having the horse taken off the track alive in the bucket of a front end loader would provide more dignity. Ever try moving an animal of that size that is immobile?
Reply
Old May 6, 2008 | 05:41 AM
  #26  
Triple-H's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 58,680
Likes: 2
From: West Henrietta UPSTATE NY
Default

Originally Posted by mikegarrison,May 5 2008, 08:51 PM
Dignity? You mean you would make the horse suffer longer just so the people watching in the stands and on TV didn't have to feel bad about seeing it?
The hourse could have been medicated so it was out of pain, then moved off track so the killing of the animal could be more proivate. Maybe I'm coming from the wrong point of view, as in pet, maybe the owner had no emotional tie to the animal, only greed, and then yes, it can't race anymore, might as well just shoot it while it is down...
Reply
Old May 6, 2008 | 06:16 AM
  #27  
boltonblue's Avatar
Member (Premium)
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 37,581
Likes: 6,377
From: bolton
Default

the horse had shattered both front ankles.
medicated or not it wasn't going to be moving on it's own accord.
Reply
Old May 6, 2008 | 07:06 AM
  #28  
silvershadow's Avatar
Registered User
Gold Member (Premium)
 
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,871
Likes: 0
From: Scottsdale
Default

I didn't see the race (I was on a plane to China - again), so I am writing this from the Beijing Hilton. I don't support horse racing as it has become all about the money - and the animal be damned. Here in Scottsdale, there is a steady stream of thoroughbreds for sale that are ex-race horses. You don't win - you're sold.

But there are some safety issues involved. When a horse is in intense pain, sedatives don't always work properly. I have seen horses that have been tranquilized start thrashing around. If the horse had been tranquilized, and then started thrashing around, it could have hurt (typically severely when you are talking about a large horse) people that were trying to help it, so in my opinion, not moving it was the safest choice.

I won't go on a rant about horse racing, but in the circle of horse people I know, no self respecting horseman has anything to do with it.
Reply
Old May 6, 2008 | 05:04 PM
  #29  
mikegarrison's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 22,888
Likes: 3
From: Covington WA, USA
Default

These horses are pretty much the equine equiv of F1 racecars. It seems like in any given race, at least one F1 engine blows up. Why? because they have been designed to take chances with reliability in order to get the peak performance out of them for a very short time.

The modern race horse is the same way. The breeding favors speed for a mile to a mile and a half over all other factors, including durability. The longer this breeding goes on, the more we are going to see this outcome.

I don't see any way around this, as long as horse racing continues to pay money the way that it does.

As for the issue of killing the horse right there on the track -- it's not a person. It doesn't have the same sense of privacy that a person has. Furthermore, I don't consider a crowd of horses around me as disturbing my privacy. I'm not sure a horse would consider a crowd of people as disturbing its privacy.

It was in intense pain, and it was not going to be able to be healed. I think that moving it out of the public view would only have been for the benefit of the people, not the horse. And so I think that would have been more wrong than just killing it as painlessly as possible right on the spot.
Reply
Old May 6, 2008 | 08:26 PM
  #30  
dlq04's Avatar
25 Year Member
 
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 45,867
Likes: 8,362
From: Mish-she-gan
Default

Originally Posted by Triple-H,May 5 2008, 01:21 PM
As an animal lover, I was, and still am outraged!
Hi Doug,

It's my wife who is the horse lover. Me, I'm the horsepower lover.

I showed her the thread but she declined to even comment, too many mixed emotions on subject.

We watched the race, even tho she really is and has been for a long time against racing horses for all the reasons others have mentioned - injuries, death, poor treatment, castaways, etc. all in the name of fame and money. Still, we have posters and models of horses that have won the big ones. It's hard not to admire the really great ones.
Reply



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:05 PM.