Do you work to live or live to work?
 

Don't laugh. It's not as funny a question as it seems. For many of us, myself included, who were brought up with the old fashioned work ethic, work is a very important part of life. I know that part of how I see myself and define my life is through my work. I find myself working more hours than I should, pushing myself harder than I should, and wanting more work than I can handle. The only way I can explain this is by saying, "Its what I do".

Most of us in Vintage have a great deal of respect for the old time work ethic. I know that I do. Most of us think that the world would be better off if younger people had it as strongly as we do. I usually believe that yet sometimes I wonder if its really true. Maybe, for those of us who take our work so seriously, we'd be better off with a little less of the work ethic and a little more ability to shrug our shoulders and walk away once in a while.

Anyway, I'm curious about how you feel about this. And I'm curious, do you work to live, or live to work?

I just love work, of any kind. I've been fortunate in that my career involves things I love doing, so it doen't often seem to be work. And the S2000 thing is work too, but it's also a blast. Part of the fun is the joy of working with people you admire and respect and who are enjoyable to be around. My wife thinks I'm nuts, since I neve sit still for more than a few minutes, but I'm having fun!
I'll be doing this til the day someone shovels sod over my head:)

Maybe I'll be *up* for a serious reply tomorrow, but right now I would like to share my image of Rick trying to avoid the inevitable (credit to Steve):

Rick at the Graveyard.....RIP????

https://www.s2ki.com/forums/avatar.p...ine=1074445876

I live to work. I enjoy it & I figure that as long as I'm happy & the taxpayers are getting their money's worth out of me I might as well keep doing it.

--Mike

Both for me. No one job can meet all my needs and desires so I have to have hobbies and time to enjoy them. I wish I could turn my hobby into a profitable business, but I don't want to work at it that hard.

Also, as I get older, I could see me making a late in life profession change. But it may be more something you dream about, rather than do.

I once said in a job interview, "I work so I can afford to play" and I hold that philosophy to this day.

I've never been defined by my job. I pick jobs that I like to do, but at the end of the day the reason I draw a paycheck is so that I can turn around and enjoy the time in my life when I'm not in the office.

I know when I'm on vacation it is nice not having anything specific to do, and to be able to go/come as i please. However, I don't mind going to work when scheduled, I have a great bunch of co-workers.

Dum Vivamus Vivamus!
All else is secondary

I work to live. My job is probably the least difinitive part of my life I can imagine.
If someone asked me about myself, my job wouldn't even make the list. I work because I have to.

That isn't to say I don't work hard, because I do. But it just doesn't define me. Part of that is because my job isn't exactly something I love. But such is life for most people. Right now I feel lucky to be working at all with the way things are going.

Work or live under a bridge.

I have always worked and been fairly successful, and gotten satisfaction from working for the most part. But I think it's true that men are defined more by their work than women are. Women are defined more by their relationships and worry more about finding a balance in their lives. Perhaps because they have to - more of the responsibilities at home still fall on them. No?

Job #1-- work to live; job #2 -- live to work.

Well, I retired 5 years ago from working outside the home to live so that I could pursue other goals and hopefully then live to work. I find that I work much harder physically now -- housework, yardwork, etc. and I seem to stay much busier. I enjoy my days far more now that I do more creative things (cooking, pottery, flower gardening, writing, painting, etc.) and it seems that I derive a lot more pleasure from these things. When I first retired I really missed the social aspects of working, but I quickly filled that need with clubs and civic organizations. I agree with Ms Perky. I find myself more and more often describing myself by my relationship with +1. Wife and mother defines me more than any career pursuits I had.

I used to live to work, but over the last few years I have come to the conclusion that I do not need to work in order to be who I am. I think that may be due to the upheavals that have occured in my professional life, and the lack of loyalty that companies are exhibiting towards their employees. While I continue to strive for excellence in my job, and continue to improve my skills and knowledge, I think that if I was financially able to retire right now (at 52) I would not hesitate to do so.

I have too many hobbies and interests as it is, perhaps many more than I could ever hope satisfy, but if I was able to devote all of my time to them I would still be a happy man. Some of this attitude is caused by the sacrifices my wife and I made while raising our two children and dealing with the medical problems they had, some is because I'm simply tired of dealing with the day-to-day BS that happens at work. I'm ready to enjoy the rest of my life to the fullest extent. Working for a living is to me a necessity, not a pleasure.

We also work due to necessity. While there are some aspects of our jobs we may enjoy, more often than not, we'd rather not be working, or maybe it's that we would rather not be working at the jobs we have.
BUT, since we need to save for retirement, and since health insurance is such an issue.....off to work we go!

In general, :iagree: I will make further comment soon on my "Downsized" thread.... :hello:

I think I may have a unique perspective on this. I'm just not sure what it is. :D . I recently turned over day-to-day operations of my firm to my partner. So I have plenty of time to pursue the ZERO hobbies that I have. To answer Rob's question more specifically, for me anyway, I always defined myself as 1) Husband, 2) Father 3) Boss/Employer. 2 out of 3 are gone. :( . For someone who defines themselves very specifically by these things, this change is quite the upheaval. Having said all this, I look forward (with some anxiety) to seeing "what's next". I've caught brief (very brief) glimpses of what my future CAN be. And I like. My advice would be to NOT define yourself by your work. Don't live to work, unless, as Rick said, you love it, in which case it's just as good as a hobby. For those who are interested, there is a good book on this subject called "Do What You Are" by Paul D. Tieger & Barbara Barron-Tieger. btw, I found this book right next to my Beer for Dummies book. :LOL:

Tell us more.... :hello: There is a lot more meat in this topic, Car Man :)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by paS2K

I'm not sure about this...or at least I think I have had a different experience in my personal life. My last two girlfriends have been SIGNIFICANTLY defined by their work. It defined success and stability and happiness in their lives. For me, balance in my life has always been paramount. I bust my butt when I'm working, but you won't find me typically hanging out in the office just to be able to punch the time clock for 40 hours in a week if I don't need to.

I think that on the whole in our society, however, that your observation could be correct...

I live to work with the hope someday soon I will not have to work to live.

Actually, I've been pretty lucky. In both of my two careers I've been able to "wrap my arms around" my profession. I've enjoyed and I enjoy what I do for a living. I'm one of those lucky people who never worked for money but rather worked for the love of it and somehow the money came. Maybe thats the answer.

I keep telling myself that I'm going to slow down, but in my heart of hearts, I don't really believe it. I can't wait to get to work in the morning.

I do define myself by what I do, I have to. It's a part of me, and no matter what, I can't deny that (nor would I want to). I also define myself by my family, my interests and all of the things that makes life worth living. Work is one of them.

My biggest problem is that there simply aren't enough hours in the day to do all the work, family and everything else that I want to do. Unfortunately, I need to sleep sometimes and now that I'm getting a little older I get tired sometimes too.

My job does from time to time present interesting challenges. However, it is basically "whoring out a buck."

If management felt for one moment that someone in Bangladore, India could do the job as well for 1/4 cent less per year, they'd move my job and tell me to take a hike.

When "cold fusion" supplies the world's energy needs; when someone achieves peace in the Middle East; when someone finds a cure for AIDS; when anyone does anything else important, I can assure you that my support for the bean counting at a utility company will have absolutely nothing to do with it.

I'm a whore: I sell a bit of myself for the money that allows me to live.

As some of you know, I was downsized exactly one month ago. With 3 months severance, I've been 'working' at my next career move (networking, resume, etc)....but also having a great time :D

*swimming at noon every day
*attending cultural/ professional events for which there was never time before {tonite: lecture by a Swarthmore College prof: "Too many choices: Who Suffers and Why"}
*starting to clean out lots of sh*t in every corner of our house

:bs: ....but the party may be over.....possible consulting position in the works.... :mad: :banghead: :D

I live to work, but I only do work that suits me. Is that really "work?" I don't think it counts if you have too much fun. :)

This is a subject that I have been giving some thought lately. I don't believe that I ever really lived to work. I always lived for my wife and family. However, I certainly used to be far more enthusiastic about work than I am these days, and I used to put in long hours on a very regular basis. It used to be the case that I felt like I was "in partnership" with the company I work for - I felt that if I worked hard, and placed a high personal priority on doing a good job, the company would look out for my interests as well. It was what one HR person I knew referred to as "the unwritten agreement" between employer and employee. And it did work that way for a long while. Back then, as a part of management, we used to do everything we could to avoid laying people off when things got tight. I don't have to tell most of you that that is just not true any more. Everyone is viewed as an expendable, replaceable cog in the machine. The company is enthusiastically blowing away people who have devoted most or all of their working lives to making the company successful. We are focused on offshoring, almost as an end in itself, with little apparent regard for whether the work is actually getting done. Moral is absolutely in the tank. HR policies are changing to reflect a "don't let the door hit you in the ass" attitude toward employees. I will be 57 this year, and prospects of continuing to work for this company until I can retire do not look good. Unfortunately, this seems to be becoming pervasive in business today, at least in this country. Business is becoming very "mean".

My wife is a public school teacher, and she is so disgusted with the idiotic requirements of this "no child left behind" nonsense that she can hardly stand to drag herself to work each day. And she is a superb teacher - the kind that parents and other teachers lobby to get their children into her class.

With 26 years at the company, I'm not going to quit now, but if I am downsized, I'm not sure that I will even attempt to find a similar position. Now that our kids are grown and gone, we may just scale back our lifestyle and see if we can get by being greeters at Wal-Mart or something, until we can retire. :D

I'm sorry that this has turned into a rant. I guess I needed to get this off my chest.

Dallas

I am troubled by much of what you said.

In this day and age where there is such a shortage of qualified, competent teachers, I find it troubling that policies are put into place that serve to frustrate and discourage teachers like your wife. I know, first hand from watching my two sons, that a good teacher makes the difference. A good teacher is the inspiration to the kids to do a little better and to reach a little higher. It's about time the politicians stopped making school policy and got out of the way to let the teachers teach. Unfortunately, Mr. Bush's policies have probably done more harm than good.

I know what you say about corporate America is also true. There is no more loyalty to the worker. I laugh when people in corporate speak about not being able to find dedicated workers. Don't they realize that it's a two way street?

I have never worked for big business (except as a temp when I was going for my MBA). I spent almost 30 years owning and running my own small clothing manufacturing firm, and now I am in a second career as a CPA working for a small accounting firm. I wouldn't have it any other way. For all the problems and difficulties of working in small business, it is, in my opinion, the only way to go.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dallas
.....if I am downsized, I'm not sure that I will even attempt to find a similar position.

I realized early on that

Dallas, I too am troubled by what you've said, and the "situations" you've observed. I hardly know where to begin. There is no way to breach some of these topics without it becoming a rant.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dallas
This is a subject that I have been giving some thought lately.

Red, Dallas

My only arguement with both of you is your claim to rant and go off topic. Neither is true. This is exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for. Do you live to work (do you love working and what you do) or do you work to live (do you do it for the dollars). Everything that both of you said goes into the mix.

As I've said, I always worked in small business and many of your experiences are foreign to me. Thanks for sharing.

Please everyone continue.

No one I know or can imagine on their 'deathbed' given the chance would say I wished I spent more time at the office...usually it would involve dreams and relationships that was neglected. Facing one's mortality can sharpen one's purpose or raison d'etre.
Having said that and being under and unemployed for a great part of the last 16 months and being in my 'peak earning years' it is difficult not 'working' for a paycheck. But I've learned to adjust my standard of living and be content, and what I do w/ my time I see as no less important than 'work'.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you're able to take an integrated approach on life that doesn't compartmentalize work / play / etc... when circumstances change it's not as traumatic, just a different manifestation of the same passion for this thing we call 'living' or Life.
If circumstances require 'overtime' there's nothing wrong w/ fullfilling responsibilities. However, beyond one's needs then it may just become an ego thing, which is also OK if one isn't arrogant and pretentious about one's success.
I work at living, living life w/ purpose and meaning...sometimes I get paid for it.
(Maybe it's too late to tackle this before going to sleep - forgive me if I've rambled incoherently)

Wow, Rob - Great topic. You obviously touched a nerve. Some powerful stories here.

Chuck/ RED MX6-

I read every line of your story and could identify (personally or via friends) with every topic. One of my former clients was a large Chemical Company located in the state of Du....er, Delaware ;) I'm glad that you felt comfortable getting this off of your chest....in spite of being an s2ki member for less than a month :)

In the bumps of my career, I have to say that I've learned something new at every 'curve in the road'. PWRMKR had some good advice for the next generation:

[SIZE=1]\"No matter how automated things get, people still have to perform certain tasks, locally. I stress to the younger crowd that firm employment can be found in places that can

:thumbup: This is a great thread -- All of you are amazing people.

I am truly gratified by the responses to my post. I am obviously not the only person who has given this some thought.

PWRMKR, I am afraid that you are correct regarding the business of 1's and 0's. Who would have thought that "immunity from offshoring" would come to be a serious consideration in choosing a career?

RED, your analysis and description of the driving factors behind this phenomenon are spot on, and very well stated. Your experience sounds more wrenching than mine.

ralpher, I think that you are correct regarding small businesses. They are probably the last bastion of humanity in business.

paS2K, I PMed you.

Thank you all.

The 1s and the 0s and offshoring. I spent a lifetime in the menswear industry and loved almost every minute of it. I watched the industry disappear. When I took my apprenticeship as a cutter in the mid 1960s (I was under age but my father was a cutter) there were 3,500 active and employed cutters in Local Big 4 of the Amalgamated Clothing Workers Union. When I left the industry in 1992 there were only 7 members left and only 4 were employed. Local Big 4, which had been the pride of the New York region, was disbanded and put under the control of the Joint Board because it couldn't support itself. The last I heard, The Amalgamated Clothing Workers Union had to merge with the International Ladies Garment Workers Union because there weren't enough jobs left in America to support either.

The menswear industry was unique in that you could be a union member and own the company too. Most of us started either as cutters or salesmen. Many of us had parents in the business who brought us in. I probably would have remained in the industry a few years longer but I caught my long time partner stealing and I felt betrayed. I felt that my mistress had let me down. So you see, even small business is not a panacea.

Getting back to my point, there is a great article titled "Trading American Interests" by Alfred E. Eckes which appeared in the Fall 1992 edition of Foreign Affairs. It goes a long way toward explaining how and why we lost most of our industrial base to the nations overseas. Once you lose that, lots of other things follow.

The advice, by PWRMKR and others, to pursue a career in something that has to be done here is very good advice.

The answer to that question is simple.

If I won the lottery I wouldn't be working doing what I am currently employed to do... So I guess I work to live.

But I am sure that even with the 100 million super mega lotto winning ticket cashed and in the bank. I would still be working at something.

I'm listening you to all and for those looking for work, good luck. I live in a part of the US however where the economy is booming.

PaS2k they can't get enough architects here.

he first major Catholic University built in the USA 40+ years is going up here, on 3 square miles including it's own cityThey're hiting at all levels. All forms of supply industry are thriving here. Entrepeneurship abounds. There's even software and computer companies down here, more trying to come in from California every day. Want to build airplanes? There's a new private jet mfgr going in ...1000 jobs.

Some other perks... More golf courses per capita than anywhere else in the world. the worlds best fishing salt of fresh. World class beaches.

Florida's a nice place and you can ragtop all year round. If you are considering a move, look in the Naples Fl area, you'll find a strong contingent that's already here from your area. The demographics alone will force this economy for many more years.

The best move I ever made was to Naples Fl. I've been here 25 years.

fltsfshr

Although architecture as a career has had many changes over the past +20 years, the fact DOES remain that the creative and problem-solving nature yields a modicum of security/longevity for the top end of the profession [design, programming, problem-solving]. I don't think AI will displace these functions for a long time....certainly not in my working lifetime.

OTOH, the 'commodity' functions (such as producing standardized construction documents) has already started to often go off-shore :banghead:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by paS2K
Chuck/ RED MX6-

I read every line of your story and could identify (personally or via friends) with every topic. One of my former clients was a large Chemical Company located in the state of Du....er, Delaware ;) I'm glad that you felt comfortable getting this off of your chest....in spite of being an s2ki member for less than a month :)

In the bumps of my career, I have to say that I've learned something new at every 'curve in the road'.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RED MX5

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dallas
Your experience sounds more wrenching than mine.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ralper

i love the sense of accomplishment when you get something important done, doesn't matter if its an assignment for school or a project for work.

:iagree:
Getting something done, and getting it done well, and the sense of accomplishment that accompanies feels great.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RED MX5

[QUOTE]Originally posted by PWRMKR
...
With all this outsourcing and down sizing, I do feel comfortable in my present position. You see, mega watts can