My last thread in O.T. got deleted due to some pics linked from the article I posted. Can someone help me make sense as to why we're having such a hard time with this town? Why are we returning the town back to the people who first shot at us and why does it seem like the White House is losing control over matters???

 

I do not want to make this political at all so I will just ask a question, make an observation, and post a comment:

The starting point in this issue is whether the United States has a responsibility of vangardnism as the purveyor of freedom to the rest of the world as the only superpower?

That question was apparently answered when the "leadership" of the United States in both the Congress and the Senate voted to approve the action to depose Saddam Hussein. Even John Kerry voted to approve the toppling of this brutal dictator. People have short memories and have probably already forgotten the Op Ed piece written in the NY Times by the head of CNN in country, about just how feared and brutal Saddam is.

I am reminded of Albert Einsteins comments when trying to explain his "Theory of Relativity" in lay peoples terms: "Two minutes of sitting on top of a hot stove seems a lot longer than two minutes of kissing your best girl friend" In my opinion, it is entirely possible that in this age of "instant gratification" the people of Fallujah have quickly forgotten the joy of seeing the statues topple and the feeling of tasting freedom for the longer "reality" of their day to day existence. Just like many Americans have forgotten how they felt in the weeks after 11 Sep 2001.

I doubt if many Americans realize that before we toppled the Taliban in Afghanistan post 9-11that county held the record for the most number of refugees in modern history. More people fled Afghanistan than any other country in the world to escape this intolerate regime.

With all that stated: I can not think of any other country in the world that would do what we do, time and time again through modern history. Defend freedom knowing that freedom is never "free"! There is a cost associated with it. Just like WWII we did not start this war, the terrorist did, but we will finish it. And when the timing is correct we will do what we have done before: Create an environment where a democratic society can exist and return power to the people as well as help them rebuild. As we have done in the past in Germany and Japan. Yes, the very same people that used to shoot at us.

Regardless of your feelings when it comes to the politics envolved with this issue as a Viet Nam era Veteran all I ask is to "support our troops", even if you can not support the politicians that got us to where our troops are. I will also ask you to take some time this Memorial Day to remember all of those that have made the ultimate sacrifice so that you and I can type here and post our dissenting comments. BTW, remember the short memory comment? That was NOT possible in Iraq thirteen months ago.

I know that I will probably take some "heat" for my comments. To those detractors or those with other points of view I will quote Voltaire (how ironic he was French): I may wholly disagree with what you say, but I will defend to my death your right to say it!

 

Matt

I have two quick questions for you to consider:

1. Even if you agree that we belong in Afganistan and Iraq is our approach the correct approach. Should we have turned our back on the rest of the world and shunned international cooperation. Should we have tried to build an international coalition?

2. Do we have a responsiblilty (or the right) to bring our vision of "freedom" to people who may not want it, may not understand it or may not be ready for it?

I am not posting this to argue with you, but rather to suggest that perhaps these things should have been considered before we got involved.

 

Excellent post Matt!

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ralper
1.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ralper
Matt

I have two quick questions for you to consider:

1.

 

Or maybe they are thinking that there would not have been any terrorist attacks in Spain and those people might be alive today had Spain not joined the "coalition" of nations fighting in Iraq. I don't think its fair to automatically assume that people who lost loved ones in the train attack or in other terrorist attacks see our actions as right.

[QUOTE]
2. Do we have a responsiblilty (or the right) to bring our vision of "freedom" to people who may not want it, may not understand it or may not be ready for it?

I find this question very interesting? Saddam Hussein anilated thousands of people (with chemical weapons) in his own country (just like Hitler did). During "Gulf War 1" he ordered his troops to ignite over 600 oil wells that wreaked havoc on the environment world wide (we only have one atmosphere, we all breath the same air). It was estimated that those oil wells would burn for as long as five or six years before they exhausted their fuel supply. Those fires turned day into night because of the thick toxic smoke. It was American enginuity that had all of the well fires out in about four months (not years)! To me, this has always been very confusing. I do not understand how or why that a person that is concerned about the environment (most often a liberal) (I am "green" by the way) does not see Saddam as an environmental terrorist? What he did was enough to prove to me that he is a mad man and a threat to the entire planet! Just think what could have happened if those oil wells had burned for years!

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ralper

 

all well said Matt your statements on instant gratification and short memories sums it up.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by matt_inva