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Old Nov 9, 2005 | 07:58 AM
  #11  
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Personally, I can't see how such an infintessimally small change can have a material effect on much of anything.
Apparently, that infintessimally small change in temperature is having a deleterious effect on coral reefs worldwide, and that's just one example of it's effect within the marine environment. One might ask why one should care about coral reefs, but I'll point out that aside from their ecological implications, we are currently researching those reefs in search of various chemicals used in the treatment of human diseases. Much to our benefit, that research has been consistently bearing fruit.
Old Nov 9, 2005 | 08:00 AM
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My questions:

a) If YES, then how much? Give answer in degrees over time.

b) Can this figure be distinguished from natural Earth heat/cool cycles? Sunspots? Other?

c) If YES, does the Earth have a "natural" system that balances the change in temperatures, and is it quantifiable?

Scientifically, it seems plausible but extremely hard to quantify. Politically it's a mess, and I see HUGE political pressures on all sides, skewing results for their own gain.
Old Nov 9, 2005 | 08:01 AM
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I had a job years ago writing a joint NASA/FAA newsletter on the effects of high-altitude pollution on the ozone layer (specifically, from supersonic transports, although effects from other sources were compared). In that capacity, I dealt with scientists from all over the world who were conducting atmospheric research and publishing their findings in the newsletter. I go with the scientists on this one - I think it's a serious problem.
Old Nov 9, 2005 | 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by dean,Nov 9 2005, 08:58 AM
Apparently, that infintessimally small change in temperature is having a deleterious effect on coral reefs worldwide, and that's just one example of it's effect within the marine environment. One might ask why one should care about coral reefs, but I'll point out that aside from their ecological implications, we are currently researching those reefs in search of various chemicals used in the treatment of human diseases. Much to our benefit, that research has been consistently bearing fruit.
Given the sketchy-at-best evidence given to support global warming, I find it hard to then accept that there is "proof" that an unproven potential phenominon is causing something. IOW, if you can't prove A exists, how can you prove A causes B?

Do you have evidence to support your assertation? Perhaps you do, but I haven't seen it, and would be interested in reading it.
Old Nov 9, 2005 | 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris Stack,Nov 9 2005, 01:22 PM
Given the sketchy-at-best evidence given to support global warming, I find it hard to then accept that there is "proof" that an unproven potential phenominon is causing something. IOW, if you can't prove A exists, how can you prove A causes B?

Do you have evidence to support your assertation? Perhaps you do, but I haven't seen it, and would be interested in reading it.
My comment was on the effects of small temperature changes, not the cause of those temperature changes. The effects of increased temperature on coral reefs is fairly well documented, as it is on its effect on dinoflagellate blooms, and a host of other well established phenomena that should be easily found online from reputable sources.
Old Nov 9, 2005 | 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by bborzell,Nov 9 2005, 12:51 PM
I'm not sure if I have any of my old files from the "emerging environmental issues" effort. If I do, I would have several references to cite.
Now that Bill has lit the fire, I would be interested in reading those if you're willing to post a link to the source for them.
Old Nov 9, 2005 | 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris Stack,Nov 9 2005, 09:22 AM
Given the sketchy-at-best evidence given to support global warming,...
I don't think that "sketchy at best" adequately describes the state of scientific evidence at this time. Clearly the media reports of "positions" taken by respective sides would suggest that concepts are sketchy, but I do not believe that the scientific community believes that the science behind climate change concerns is sketchy.
Old Nov 9, 2005 | 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by dean,Nov 9 2005, 09:45 AM
Now that Bill has lit the fire, I would be interested in reading those if you're willing to post a link to the source for them.
I knew that comment would come back to haunt me.

My files are up in the attic over my shop. Since I made my decision to retire almost out of the blue, my packing and organizing of files was somewhat iffy and I'm not sure it I even have those meeting notes.

What might be better would be for me to make a few calls to former colleagues and get some references. Might take me a few days to get the info.
Old Nov 9, 2005 | 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by bborzell,Nov 9 2005, 02:13 PM
I knew that comment would come back to haunt me.

What might be better would be for me to make a few calls to former colleagues and get some references. Might take me a few days to get the info.
No good deed goes unpunished.

I would be very grateful for the info. I'm rather ashamed of my ignorance on the subject. I've spent too many years with my head buried in my own field I guess.

Perhaps you can answer another related question. Global warming notwithstanding, is there universal agreement that the ocean, and subsequently the climate, is in fact becoming warmer, or is there some legitimate dissention on the subject within the scientific community?
Old Nov 9, 2005 | 09:38 AM
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Here is a compilation of internet sites, definitions, etc. for those who want to read some data:

Global Warming



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