Handling question
Use of cruise control when there is risk of hydroplaining is a bad idea in any car, but a worse idea in any rwd vehicle.
Nine out of ten who have never experienced snap oversteer in an AP1 S2000 have never driven one near the limits. The other person is just a really good driver with exceptional reaction times and motor skills. I've ended up pointed the wrong way on several occasions. Most of those unexpected turns were during controlled handling experiments. Only one was on a public road. I was new to the car but worse, the car had some very sticky yokos on the front and some very poor tires on the back. In a light drizzle rounding a 90 degree right turn at around 10 mph the back end started coming around as pretty as you please. I caught it but corrected too quickly (as opposed to over-correcting). The momentum of the correction kept the car rotating past center and clockwise right around 270 degrees. During this secondary rotation steering inputs had no affect on the car's attitude. The whole thing was a non-event...slow motion kind of thing on a country road with no traffic and plenty of run-off. But it taught me a lesson and I immediately did two things...got some decent tires (Bridgestone Potenza RE050A PP) and found a place where I could explore the car's limits in a controlled environment.
By the way, the RE050As have nice traction and give you some audable warning as they reach their limits. But I just put on a set of Azenis rt-615s at my son's recommendation and they are great. Their break-away is as gentle as any tire I can recall. A few other tires may offer more ultimate grip but the 'zenis make the s easier to drive near its limits.
Nine out of ten who have never experienced snap oversteer in an AP1 S2000 have never driven one near the limits. The other person is just a really good driver with exceptional reaction times and motor skills. I've ended up pointed the wrong way on several occasions. Most of those unexpected turns were during controlled handling experiments. Only one was on a public road. I was new to the car but worse, the car had some very sticky yokos on the front and some very poor tires on the back. In a light drizzle rounding a 90 degree right turn at around 10 mph the back end started coming around as pretty as you please. I caught it but corrected too quickly (as opposed to over-correcting). The momentum of the correction kept the car rotating past center and clockwise right around 270 degrees. During this secondary rotation steering inputs had no affect on the car's attitude. The whole thing was a non-event...slow motion kind of thing on a country road with no traffic and plenty of run-off. But it taught me a lesson and I immediately did two things...got some decent tires (Bridgestone Potenza RE050A PP) and found a place where I could explore the car's limits in a controlled environment.
By the way, the RE050As have nice traction and give you some audable warning as they reach their limits. But I just put on a set of Azenis rt-615s at my son's recommendation and they are great. Their break-away is as gentle as any tire I can recall. A few other tires may offer more ultimate grip but the 'zenis make the s easier to drive near its limits.
I think it is important to qualify some of the statements.
Engineers create what we call the SOA, Safe Operating Area, where highly predictable results occur.
Most of what is being discussed is at the transitions out of the SOA, which is an exceptionally large area for 'normal' operating.
The probability of encountering one of these upset events is low for 'normal driving.
Slightly higher for enthusiastic driving, much more so for aggressive driving and likely for competitive driving.
It makes sense to autocross the car to safely understand where these limits exist in a controlled environment.
Engineers create what we call the SOA, Safe Operating Area, where highly predictable results occur.
Most of what is being discussed is at the transitions out of the SOA, which is an exceptionally large area for 'normal' operating.
The probability of encountering one of these upset events is low for 'normal driving.
Slightly higher for enthusiastic driving, much more so for aggressive driving and likely for competitive driving.
It makes sense to autocross the car to safely understand where these limits exist in a controlled environment.
Originally Posted by boltonblue,Mar 23 2009, 08:45 PM
The car is responsive and will do what you ask.
ask for something stupid and your wish will be granted.
ask for something stupid and your wish will be granted.
That said, I rarely drive my car in the rain, although it did see snow a couple weeks ago in Cape May.
(And yes, the only snow it had seen up til then was from inside the garage.
)
I saw my share of oh heck moments in my previously owned model year '01, but have yet to slip, slide, or break out with the '06. I've driven through rain storms in the 06 that I'd have never even considered in the '01. The newer cars are much more highway friendly than the older models. As to fun driving, I'd prefer the 01. As to all around driving and a more secure feeling, I prefer the 06. As to color choices: Definitely I love the NFR.
Filthy, we've been caught in the rain many times in our '04 S2000.
Not a problem, as long as you don't use cruise control, you take it easy, skip the VTEC and most important, make sure your tires are in good shape.
Two years ago we did a VA road trip from MA. Rick checked the tire tread before we left and some would have thought they had plenty of life left in them. Knowing we'd be on the road with no idea of what kind of weather we'd run into, he had the tires replaced before we hit the road.
We ran into a TON of rain one day, so the old "ounce of prevention" made us both feel better.
Not a problem, as long as you don't use cruise control, you take it easy, skip the VTEC and most important, make sure your tires are in good shape.
Two years ago we did a VA road trip from MA. Rick checked the tire tread before we left and some would have thought they had plenty of life left in them. Knowing we'd be on the road with no idea of what kind of weather we'd run into, he had the tires replaced before we hit the road.
We ran into a TON of rain one day, so the old "ounce of prevention" made us both feel better.
My first S2000 DE track event in 2003 was with the Porsche Club, and it was raining the whole weekend. I was in my MY00 AP1, running Michelin Pilot Sports. Tracking the car in the rain is definitely possible and fun -- if you want to push it enough to learn the car's oversteer characteristics in the wet. S02s and S03s were not very good in the wet, though. As Val says, the AP2 is a different car. The OEM Potenza RE050s are not bad at the track in the rain, and the RE070s are even better.
Originally Posted by Lainey,Mar 24 2009, 07:37 AM
Filthy, we've been caught in the rain many times in our '04 S2000.
Not a problem, as long as you don't use cruise control, you take it easy, skip the VTEC and most important, make sure your tires are in good shape.
Two years ago we did a VA road trip from MA. Rick checked the tire tread before we left and some would have thought they had plenty of life left in them. Knowing we'd be on the road with no idea of what kind of weather we'd run into, he had the tires replaced before we hit the road.
We ran into a TON of rain one day, so the old "ounce of prevention" made us both feel better.
Not a problem, as long as you don't use cruise control, you take it easy, skip the VTEC and most important, make sure your tires are in good shape.
Two years ago we did a VA road trip from MA. Rick checked the tire tread before we left and some would have thought they had plenty of life left in them. Knowing we'd be on the road with no idea of what kind of weather we'd run into, he had the tires replaced before we hit the road.
We ran into a TON of rain one day, so the old "ounce of prevention" made us both feel better.
Originally Posted by Filthy Beast,Mar 24 2009, 09:59 AM
Lainey, i totaly agree, but if i drove it in the rain i would have to slow down. 

True, but sometimes it is OK to see the scenery, though the scenery sux in the rain.
Originally Posted by Raff,Mar 23 2009, 07:28 PM
Over the years I've owned cars that needed caution in the wet --notably Mustang GTs, Porsche 356 and a TR4 with Michelin "X" (anyone remeber those tires) and never had trouble.
Now, after having owned my S since 2002 and it is indeed my track car, all I can say is I love how neutral this car is. Yes, the backend will come around if the nut behind the wheel pushes the coefficient of friction too far. Do I think the car deserves the label sudden snap oversteer? No, I don't.
I suspect you will be fine, the S is a great car, but like any car, if ya push it too far it will bite back.












