Hey Martha...
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From: Houston, TX
They are not on an average basis per year, but they might during short periods during the summer months when the imports do come to the US. I believe one LNG tanker carries about 3 Bcf, so that's a lot of gas to re-expand, put into tanks and then distribute through the pipes. You get two or three tankers in a row and your facility is pretty busy. 
But again, the real issue is and/or will be the infrastructure. Right now the transmission capacity is just not there to get the gas from where you have it (Gulf region) to where you need it (Northeast and Southeast).
But again, the real issue is and/or will be the infrastructure. Right now the transmission capacity is just not there to get the gas from where you have it (Gulf region) to where you need it (Northeast and Southeast).
Joined: Apr 2003
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From: Clifton, VA
Martha,
I have a question.
For most of our Vintage lives diesel fuel which does not require as much refining as gasoline was less expensive than gasoline because it was not as "highly refined". In the last few years all of a sudden diesel is more expensive than premium gas, what gives?
One explanation is the stations are now selling a more refined version of diesel that does not pollute as much. But I can not help but wonder that some oil company executives put their heads together and decided that virtually all freight moves in vehicles that use diesel fuel. Be it freighters, trains or trucks (the exception being jet fuel) and decided that was there new profit center. Therefore, helping to keep the prices at the pump from rising as much as they could have and displacing the transportation cost of virtually all products at the retail level. I have noticed several price increases in the stuff that I buy lately.
Why is diesel now more expensive than 93 octane gas?
I have a question.
For most of our Vintage lives diesel fuel which does not require as much refining as gasoline was less expensive than gasoline because it was not as "highly refined". In the last few years all of a sudden diesel is more expensive than premium gas, what gives?
One explanation is the stations are now selling a more refined version of diesel that does not pollute as much. But I can not help but wonder that some oil company executives put their heads together and decided that virtually all freight moves in vehicles that use diesel fuel. Be it freighters, trains or trucks (the exception being jet fuel) and decided that was there new profit center. Therefore, helping to keep the prices at the pump from rising as much as they could have and displacing the transportation cost of virtually all products at the retail level. I have noticed several price increases in the stuff that I buy lately.
Why is diesel now more expensive than 93 octane gas?
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From: Houston, TX
Couple of different reasons. Yes, the added cost to desulphurize the fuel and make it more environmentally friendly costs money and that cost is being passed on to the consumer. But realize that when you refine a barrel of crude, you don't set out to make a barrel of gasoline or a barrel of diesel. Ultimately you get a mix of products from a barrel of crude, from bitumen to resid to "middle distillates" (diesel, heating oil jet fuel, etc) to gasoline, etc. The amount of each product that you get out depends on both the underlying crude slate and the refining process you are using.
What has happened in the last few years is that refiners got better at cracking the carbon chains to create high-value products like gasoline -- which meant that there isn't as much of the other, formerly cheaper, products around anymore. So it's not anything sinister; it's just the outcome of giving the market what it wants (gasoline) and making sacrifices (diesel).
If you think filling up with diesel is bad, consider the maritime industry. I used to sell fuel oil in New York Harbor for right around $100/ton not even three years ago. Nowadays it's in excess of $200/ton. Mostly because the refineries just do not produce as much of the stuff anymore.
What has happened in the last few years is that refiners got better at cracking the carbon chains to create high-value products like gasoline -- which meant that there isn't as much of the other, formerly cheaper, products around anymore. So it's not anything sinister; it's just the outcome of giving the market what it wants (gasoline) and making sacrifices (diesel).
If you think filling up with diesel is bad, consider the maritime industry. I used to sell fuel oil in New York Harbor for right around $100/ton not even three years ago. Nowadays it's in excess of $200/ton. Mostly because the refineries just do not produce as much of the stuff anymore.
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From: Scottsdale
Originally Posted by Ulrich,Jan 17 2008, 06:36 PM
On a cost basis, you can get LNG into the US at a landed cost of about $4/Bcf. Compare that to the average drilling cost in the newer locations out west of $5-6/Bcf (all considered "tight gas", hence expensive to produce). It's really a little simplistic to say that the gas price is driven just by the economy; there are three issues that influence domestic gas prices and LNG imports:
1. Lack of storage - which is why FERC is allowing new builds to charge market-based rates instead of regulated rates, without any stringent tests whether the storage owner has market power. If the tanks are full, gas prices drop at least regionally (Wyoming and Colorado "benefit" from this at least occasionally because there is little storage locally and the pipeline system, e.g. the Rockies Express system that takes gas to Ohio, is not completed yet).
2. Lack of pipeline capacity - both in producing areas but also and particularly on the last mile towards/beyond the city gate. The domestic transmission system can just about handle average gas demand, but when a cold snap hits the Northeast and demand peaks, you have a problem getting the gas where it is needed. Combined with issue #1 (particularly in market areas) that can lead to a short-term tripling of the gas price
3. Europe has no storage capacity, so they import LNG on a real-time basis and will pay just about any price to get their gas when it's cold. As a result the US, which has storage capacity, picks up the swing supply during the summer time and LNG imports are extremely seasonal. That of course has an impact on prices, too. Cheaper in summer, more expensive in winter.
1. Lack of storage - which is why FERC is allowing new builds to charge market-based rates instead of regulated rates, without any stringent tests whether the storage owner has market power. If the tanks are full, gas prices drop at least regionally (Wyoming and Colorado "benefit" from this at least occasionally because there is little storage locally and the pipeline system, e.g. the Rockies Express system that takes gas to Ohio, is not completed yet).
2. Lack of pipeline capacity - both in producing areas but also and particularly on the last mile towards/beyond the city gate. The domestic transmission system can just about handle average gas demand, but when a cold snap hits the Northeast and demand peaks, you have a problem getting the gas where it is needed. Combined with issue #1 (particularly in market areas) that can lead to a short-term tripling of the gas price
3. Europe has no storage capacity, so they import LNG on a real-time basis and will pay just about any price to get their gas when it's cold. As a result the US, which has storage capacity, picks up the swing supply during the summer time and LNG imports are extremely seasonal. That of course has an impact on prices, too. Cheaper in summer, more expensive in winter.
Joined: Oct 2000
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From: Philly (Narberth)
Along with all this great technical info, let me drop in a true 'oil' story that's pretty funny.
We get our heating oil from a small dealer who often seems to screw up the paperwork back in the office. But they have always been dependable.
I thought it was strange to hear that we rec'd an 'automatic' delivery on Jan 7th....since we had gotten at least 200 gal in early December. It's not been THAT cold here. I thought "Oh well...." as our twin tanks hold 550 gal.
On Tues day this week, I was filing the receipt that the driver handed to Kathy. I looked at it and saw our neighbor's name & address....
Here's a copy of the email that I sent to them 
[QUOTE]
Dear Friends and Neighbors-
Thank you very much for the fuel oil fill-up of 173.1 gallons that we received from XXXXX & Sons Inc. on 1/7/08, with a unit cost of $2.64/gallon.
We get our heating oil from a small dealer who often seems to screw up the paperwork back in the office. But they have always been dependable.
I thought it was strange to hear that we rec'd an 'automatic' delivery on Jan 7th....since we had gotten at least 200 gal in early December. It's not been THAT cold here. I thought "Oh well...." as our twin tanks hold 550 gal.
On Tues day this week, I was filing the receipt that the driver handed to Kathy. I looked at it and saw our neighbor's name & address....
Here's a copy of the email that I sent to them [QUOTE]
Dear Friends and Neighbors-
Thank you very much for the fuel oil fill-up of 173.1 gallons that we received from XXXXX & Sons Inc. on 1/7/08, with a unit cost of $2.64/gallon.
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