nuff said! Every union story I read is a nightmare do the people that pay union dues "willingly" not forced like most of them do, Actually think they are getting anything for there $. Most companies that have union jobs require you to pay dues regardless of your affiliation with them or not. It all goes downhill from there.....

 

Of course they did. The UAW lead the way prior to and after WWII for industrial workers to grow the into the middle class and this in turn spread to many other professions and fueled an economic growth. Sadly they have now become an a roadblock to comebacks because of their unwillingness to change with the times.

 

Apparently you guys are too young to remember, never listened to the stories your parents and grandparents told or never read any history.

If you had you'd have known about the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire and the sweatshops in the men's and women's clothing industry. You'd know how the Amalgamated Clothing Worker Union (ACW) improved the lives and conditions of those working in the menswear industry and how the International Ladies Garment Workers Union (ILGWU) did the same for those in the women's wear industry.

http://www.ilr.cornell.edu/trianglefire/narrative1.html

Its hard to imagine how many more deaths we'd have seen in the mines had it not been for the United Mine Workers Union.

You'd know about how the United Auto Workers Union did the same for those in the auto industry and you'd know about the Teamsters, AFL-CIO, UFT and many, many more. You'd know how valuable and important the unions were.

And, you'd never ask a question like that.

Granted, the unions became as corrupt and power hungry as the companies in the industries they worked to change, but without the unions, the American worker would never have enjoyed the fair wages and working conditions that they did, and the American middle class would never have grown.

The unions, or what's left of them, failed to change with changing times, and failed to see the handwriting on the wall concerning globalization and overseas production. That has hurt them very badly.

As our economy worsens, don't be too surprised if you see a resurgance in unionism, and don't be too surprised if you see the formation of labor unions in the developing nations.

 

in the 100 or so years since unions formed it is easy to have forgotten how oppressive and exploitive some employers were.
it has been a while since anyone was killed trying to get a raise or the state militia was called out to break up a strike by shooting up a tent village
check your history you'll find some pretty bloody labor actions.

I've followed a couple generations of union officers, but ... somewhere along the line it has gotten lost.
maybe I'm selfish but I want to be rewarded when I consistently outperform my peer group.
In engineering this is possible which is probably why I wound up here.

The unions somehow polarized negotiations into the us vs them mentality and at times have broken companies.
The concept that they need an expanded set of benefits every time they negotiate.
Management is just as guilty into agreeing to long term unaccounted-for benefits. ( GM might be a prime example)

The growing gulf between management compensation and labor may re-ignite union enthusiasm.
The worldwide market is certainly going to continue to challenge unskilled and semi-skilled labor in the US.
The 'skilled' labor engineering, doctors etc have discovered that they are not immune to this pressure either.

 

I found David E Davis recent discussion about the vision of one of the UAWs leaders to very interesting. Davis then goes on to pitch American cars.

http://www.windingroad.com/multimedia/issu...merican-Driver/

 

I was kidding. I was just following lig's lead in baiting people when I knew any serious discussion would cause this thread to be closed.

 

Sorry, I took you seriously. I forgot all about the problems involving serious discussion.

 

Dave,

The problem with what he says about giving the American automobile a second chance is simply that this is the same speech that we've heard for the last 25 years. After a while, there are simply no more second, third or fourth chances left. Detroit has nobody but themselves to blame.

Granted, the American car is probably a better car than it's ever been. But after you've been burned, disappointed and fooled a number of times, you don't feel like taking anymore chances.

I will admit that what he says about UAW's leaders is quite interesting, but unfortunately, the UAW realized this too late.

 

Rob, I agree. As you know, after 30+ years of wonderful Japanese cars, I gave the CTS a try...... and now I have an Audi A6, which by-the-way I love so far.

As for Bluestone's comments, I'm not sure what year he made them but he retired 18 years ago from the UAW; so it was a long time ago. My point being that Union leaders are not all stupid and have no vision as is often projected. Clearly the current leadership does not get it.

 

I agree totally. The Union leaders are not nearly so stupid as they are made out to be nor as the general public perceives them to be. Remember, they are fighting on three fronts. Industry doesn't like the unions, the general public doesn't like the unions and even the government, since Reagan, has taken a position against them. A lot of what you hear from union leaders is simply bluster and posturing. They know as well as anybody else that they have to compromise in order to survive. Moreover, I don't think their vision is any worse that that of the people running the auto companies.